Ripple, Rolling, Slip tools in the new version
Hi GG/Phyllis, I am using the new month build and thank you for your great work. A few questions. 1) Ripple tool (more used). I can see, now, that Ripple tool is not a very ripple edit, for me. I know (knew at this point) that Ripple tool may made shorter or longera clip. Now I can made shorter or longer a clip only on right side of that clip. I added a screencast: https://streamable.com/1vs0f For me the right way is like before. I added a quickly scheme with four cases, following your scheme. (See file "ripple-edit.txt" appended). 2) Rolling tool. Okay. I added a screencast: https://streamable.com/g6cpr 3) Slip tool. Now, when I drag to left in timeline, the Compositor shows the clip to go forward in the time and vice versa. I added a screencast: https://streamable.com/kuh0k I would expect that if I drag to left the Compositor shows the clip to go back in the time. (See file "slip-edit.txt" appended) More, if possible, it would be useful if the Compositor could show the split view with, on the left side shows the clip's InPoint that changes and on the right side shows the clips's OutPoint that changes. What do you think about, please? If I am wrong you can tell me. Thank you. IgorBeg
Hi IgorBeg, I agree with you about the Ripple tool, it should behave as before when it comes to adjusting a cut from the beginning of a clip. As for the Slip tool and the dual display of the clips of the cut in the composer, I believe that it is necessary to maintain a constant behavior between the different modes; the dual display shows each side of a cut. To change the display as you propose in this case, I think it should be an applicable option by pressing the "option" button. Pierre On 19-02-02 06 h 06, Igor BEGHETTO wrote:
Hi GG/Phyllis, I am using the new month build and thank you for your great work. A few questions.
1) Ripple tool (more used). I can see, now, that Ripple tool is not a very ripple edit, for me. I know (knew at this point) that Ripple tool may made shorter or longera clip. Now I can made shorter or longer a clip only on right side of that clip. I added a screencast: https://streamable.com/1vs0f For me the right way is like before. I added a quickly scheme with four cases, following your scheme. (See file "ripple-edit.txt" appended).
2) Rolling tool. Okay. I added a screencast: https://streamable.com/g6cpr
3) Slip tool. Now, when I drag to left in timeline, the Compositor shows the clip to go forward in the time and vice versa. I added a screencast: https://streamable.com/kuh0k I would expect that if I drag to left the Compositor shows the clip to go back in the time. (See file "slip-edit.txt" appended) More, if possible, it would be useful if the Compositor could show the split view with, on the left side shows the clip's InPoint that changes and on the right side shows the clips's OutPoint that changes.
What do you think about, please? If I am wrong you can tell me. Thank you.
IgorBeg
Pierre, I understand you but, as you know, Slip and Slide tools act on non-adjacent frames. I spoke only for that two tools, of course. Slip tool changes the In and Out point of the middleClip (leftClip-middleClip-rightClip). Slide tool changes the OutPoint of the leftClip and the InPoint of the rightClip (leftClip-middleClip-rightClip). Then, your/our focus should be in the frames that were changing, I think (and if possible to implement that). Others NLE split the Compositor to four views: two "great" views face to face (like now in Cinelerra-GG), more two little views above the two greater views. The two greater views show the frames that change, the two little views show the frames that doesn't change. IgorBeg Il 02/02/2019 15.42, Pierre autourduglobe ha scritto:
As for the Slip tool and the dual display of the clips of the cut in the composer, I believe that it is necessary to maintain a constant behavior between the different modes; the dual display shows each side of a cut. To change the display as you propose in this case, I think it should be an applicable option by pressing the "option" button.
Pierre
Yes, if it is possible to use four displays instead of two in these cases, it would certainly be better. Pierre On 19-02-02 16 h 19, Igor BEGHETTO wrote:
Pierre, I understand you but, as you know, Slip and Slide tools act on non-adjacent frames. I spoke only for that two tools, of course. Slip tool changes the In and Out point of the middleClip (leftClip-middleClip-rightClip). Slide tool changes the OutPoint of the leftClip and the InPoint of the rightClip (leftClip-middleClip-rightClip). Then, your/our focus should be in the frames that were changing, I think (and if possible to implement that).
Others NLE split the Compositor to four views: two "great" views face to face (like now in Cinelerra-GG), more two little views above the two greater views. The two greater views show the frames that change, the two little views show the frames that doesn't change.
IgorBeg
Il 02/02/2019 15.42, Pierre autourduglobe ha scritto:
As for the Slip tool and the dual display of the clips of the cut in the composer, I believe that it is necessary to maintain a constant behavior between the different modes; the dual display shows each side of a cut. To change the display as you propose in this case, I think it should be an applicable option by pressing the "option" button.
Pierre
IgorB/Pierre: a compromise has been reached and the latest GIT checkin includes the following change for the Ripple: the Ripple tool, it should behave as before when
it comes to adjusting a cut from the beginning of a clip.
It now behaves as before. Edge is changed to be what 1/2 of the Ripple was until now.
The Slip tool remains the same so that there is no confusing difference in behavior with the others. The Roll has never been a problem. gg/Phyllis New test builds are at: https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-ub16-x86_64-stat... https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-mint18-x86_64-st...
Great, Ripple is working very well now. Pierre On 19-02-17 19 h 24, Phyllis Smith wrote:
IgorB/Pierre: a compromise has been reached and the latest GIT checkin includes the following change for the Ripple:
the Ripple tool, it should behave as before when
it comes to adjusting a cut from the beginning of a clip.
It now behaves as before. Edge is changed to be what 1/2 of the Ripple was until now.
The Slip toolremains the same so that there is no confusing difference in behavior with the others. The Roll has never been a problem. gg/Phyllis
New test builds are at: https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-ub16-x86_64-stat... https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-mint18-x86_64-st...
Thanks for the new build. For me it is not still right, sorry. 1) Ripple tool. When I drag to right (left arrow showed) the tool should to trim from InPoint to cursor position (where it is). It should works like "Ctrl+Alt+,". Now it works inversely. (The steady man is my reference ) Screencast: https://streamable.com/vdqj1 2) Slip tool. When I drag to right (left arrow showed) the Compositor should shows the clip to go forward and the cursor position on timeline to match with the real position in timeline when I drop. (The yellow car is my reference) Screencast: https://streamable.com/v5355 For all two tools: the labels are useful to mark the position of trimming, but with new Ripple and Slip tools you can not use them anymore. (look at the screencasts, please) Thanks for your work. IgorBeg Il 18/02/2019 4.19, Pierre autourduglobe ha scritto:
Great, Ripple is working very well now.
Pierre
On 19-02-17 19 h 24, Phyllis Smith wrote:
IgorB/Pierre: a compromise has been reached and the latest GIT checkin includes the following change for the Ripple:
the Ripple tool, it should behave as before when
it comes to adjusting a cut from the beginning of a clip.
It now behaves as before. Edge is changed to be what 1/2 of the Ripple was until now.
The Slip toolremains the same so that there is no confusing difference in behavior with the others. The Roll has never been a problem. gg/Phyllis
New test builds are at: https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-ub16-x86_64-stat...
https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-mint18-x86_64-st...
Here, under the last Cinelerra Infinity - built: Feb 17 2019 14:48:11 The Ripple, whether it is executed with the Button-1 or Button-1 + Shift or Button-1 + Ctrl + Alt + , produces exactly the same result in terms of modifying the beginning of a timeline clip. Pierre On 19-02-18 08 h 32, Igor BEGHETTO wrote:
Thanks for the new build. For me it is not still right, sorry. 1) Ripple tool. When I drag to right (left arrow showed) the tool should to trim from InPoint to cursor position (where it is). It should works like "Ctrl+Alt+,". Now it works inversely. (The steady man is my reference ) Screencast: https://streamable.com/vdqj1
2) Slip tool. When I drag to right (left arrow showed) the Compositor should shows the clip to go forward and the cursor position on timeline to match with the real position in timeline when I drop. (The yellow car is my reference) Screencast: https://streamable.com/v5355
For all two tools: the labels are useful to mark the position of trimming, but with new Ripple and Slip tools you can not use them anymore. (look at the screencasts, please) Thanks for your work.
IgorBeg
Il 18/02/2019 4.19, Pierre autourduglobe ha scritto:
Great, Ripple is working very well now.
Pierre
On 19-02-17 19 h 24, Phyllis Smith wrote:
IgorB/Pierre: a compromise has been reached and the latest GIT checkin includes the following change for the Ripple:
the Ripple tool, it should behave as before when
it comes to adjusting a cut from the beginning of a clip.
It now behaves as before. Edge is changed to be what 1/2 of the Ripple was until now.
The Slip toolremains the same so that there is no confusing difference in behavior with the others. The Roll has never been a problem. gg/Phyllis
New test builds are at: https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-ub16-x86_64-stat...
https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-mint18-x86_64-st...
Thanks Pierre for your feedback. I just tried Ripple tool on another machine of mine with LinuxMint-18.1-Mate "Serena" and "Cin built Feb 17 2019 14:48:11" and it works exactly as shown in my screencasts added in my previous message. Screencast: https://streamable.com/vdqj1 As I always said, when I drag to right (left arrow showed) the tool should trim from InPoint to the cursor position (where it is). More, Autos not follow edits, if you may attention at the screencast. Thanks. Until Cin-20181231 version it was Okay for me (and even others NLE works so). IgorBeg Il 18/02/2019 15.33, Pierre autourduglobe ha scritto:
Here, under the last Cinelerra Infinity - built: Feb 17 2019 14:48:11
The Ripple, whether it is executed with the Button-1 or Button-1 + Shift or Button-1 + Ctrl + Alt + ,
produces exactly the same result in terms of modifying the beginning of a timeline clip.
Pierre
IgorB: When I test the old December and the new February for *Ripple*, I still see the same exact results but I struggle with testing these. I will continue to test today until I get better at understanding your examples (or my "Peter Falk, Columbo, Italian" fingers get tired). As for *Slip*, the results are the same *except *you have to switch your brain as the left and right are the opposite of the December method -- that is because the code is attempting to use consistent code for all. Will provide an update later to see if there is some bug that gg is missing, but he believes that the current methodology is the best compromise. We would not be happy if you have to continue to use December's release because we appreciate your testing. gg/Phyllis On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 8:48 AM Igor BEGHETTO <[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks Pierre for your feedback. I just tried Ripple tool on another machine of mine with LinuxMint-18.1-Mate "Serena" and "Cin built Feb 17 2019 14:48:11" and it works exactly as shown in my screencasts added in my previous message. Screencast: https://streamable.com/vdqj1 As I always said, when I drag to right (left arrow showed) the tool should trim from InPoint to the cursor position (where it is). More, Autos not follow edits, if you may attention at the screencast. Thanks. Until Cin-20181231 version it was Okay for me (and even others NLE works so).
IgorBeg
Il 18/02/2019 15.33, Pierre autourduglobe ha scritto:
Here, under the last Cinelerra Infinity - built: Feb 17 2019 14:48:11
The Ripple, whether it is executed with the Button-1 or Button-1 + Shift or Button-1 + Ctrl + Alt + ,
produces exactly the same result in terms of modifying the beginning of a timeline clip.
Pierre
-- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Phyllis, thanks for that. I must excuse with you, Phyllis and GG, and Pierre. Now I understood what doesn't work. The Ripple tool works right but the Labels, Autos, Plugin and keyframes not follow edit (the difference between the old version December and the new February). I have done a great mistake. Sorry. For the Slip tool you are right about switch the brain (mmh, poor my only neuron); however in the old version I marked with the label a reference point that now it is not more sense. Of course, as always, the base idea is: It have to be useful to more people than one person (me). Don't worry, I will test all the new version (and the builds you make for me and Ubuntu16 users). The problem, as always, is the 4th dimension (the time). IgorBeg Il 19/02/2019 17.06, Phyllis Smith ha scritto:
IgorB: When I test the old December and the new February for *Ripple*, I still see the same exact results but I struggle with testing these. I will continue to test today until I get better at understanding your examples (or my "Peter Falk, Columbo, Italian" fingers get tired).
As for *Slip*, the results are the same /except /you have to switch your brain as the left and right are the opposite of the December method -- that is because the code is attempting to use consistent code for all.
Will provide an update later to see if there is some bug that gg is missing, but he believes that the current methodology is the best compromise. We would not be happy if you have to continue to use December's release because we appreciate your testing. gg/Phyllis
IgorB: I have to show gg a case that is wrong with moving Labels/Effects and I think *I have found one in Ripple* (often times he disproves my theory though). So if I have 3 edits with 2 labels and an effect in the middle edit, using the left drag handle on the left side of that middle edit, and when I drag either right or left, the labels and effect do not correctly move (with Edit labels checked in Settings, of course). The right drag handle works OK for me. GG will work on the bad case. But *with Slip, I find no problems *in any case of labels and effects. In contrast, the December method seems to incorrectly handle labels/effects no matter which way I drag. gg/phyllis Now I understood what doesn't work.
The Ripple tool works right but the Labels, Autos, Plugin and keyframes not
follow edit (the difference between the old version December and the new February)
*Ripple tool:*
Phyllis: "So if I have 3 edits with 2 labels and an effect in the middle edit, using the left drag handle on the left side of that middle edit, and when I drag either right or left, the labels and effect do not correctly move (with Edit labels checked in Settings, of course)." Phyllis, You are right. (The labels and effect do not correctly move: also Keyframes and Autos).
Phyllis: "The right drag handle works OK for me." Yes, that's true. I confirm everything you wrote.
*Slip tool: *(With my brain switched) ;-P Only when I drag left, the keyframes don't follows edits. I added a screencast for the Feb 17 2019 release. I haven't tried the Dec 12 2018, sorry. https://streamable.com/t2oqp Thanks for all your time. IgorBeg
IgorB: There is a new ubuntu 16 build for you to verify the fix for follow edit with Ripple and follow keyframes with slip. It is at: https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-ub16-x86_64-stat... If anything else is noted as wrong, please let us know and thank you in advance. gg/Phyllis
Hey guys, you are very fast! Thanks for the build. Now It is okay, for me. Thank you so much. A little thing. I don't know if it is right or not: the edge/s of the plugin (effect) not follow the edit, in some cases, with the three tools Ripple-Roll-Slip (I have not tried the Edge and Slide tools). Even in December 2018 release it works so. I added three screencasts. Take a look, please. Ripple https://streamable.com/qfelt Roll https://streamable.com/3nc63 Slip https://streamable.com/u5fwu Let me know if it is better I describe my doubt by words. Really thanks! IgorBeg Il 21/02/2019 0.06, Phyllis Smith ha scritto:
IgorB: There is a new ubuntu 16 build for you to verify the fix for follow edit with Ripple and follow keyframes with slip. It is at: https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-ub16-x86_64-stat...
If anything else is noted as wrong, please let us know and thank you in advance. gg/Phyllis
In Ripple tool, using the left drag handle on the left side of the edit and dragging left or right, the cursor position stay in place after drop. Would it be possible to move the cursor position on the left edge of that editwhen I drop? Thanks. IgorBeg
IgorB: the below has been fixed in the latest GIT checkin. GG is doing a build now but having a problem. Please look for an updated ubuntu16 in the usual place tomorrow morning (I think he will have it ready). In Ripple tool, using the left drag handle on the left side of the edit
and dragging left or right, the cursor position stay in place after drop. Would it be possible to move the cursor position on the left edge of that edit when I drop?
Also, about yesterday's email. I am still looking at the below. It seems it can go either way. But it is sort of controversial here and my ears are burning from the controversy. Will see what can be done. gg/Phyllis A little thing. I don't know if it is right or not: the edge/s of the
plugin (effect) not follow the edit, in some cases, with the three tools Ripple-Roll-Slip
Thank you so much for the build, Phyllis and GG (first the lady and then the gentleman). ;-) The "cursor position" it's perfect, thanks. With this change, I think also other users can be more comfortable so. Phyllis, I am so sorry for your ears and the controversy about"the edge/s of the plugin (effect) not follow the edit, in some cases". My personal opinion is that the edge/s should follow the edit. Maybe, if other users want to say something about, it would be better. I would like to know their impressions. Thanks. IgorBeg
I also consider that the edge/s should follow the edit. Hoping not to have contributed to anyone's ringing in their ears.... Pierre On 19-02-23 05 h 04, Igor BEGHETTO wrote:
Thank you so much for the build, Phyllis and GG (first the lady and then the gentleman). ;-) The "cursor position" it's perfect, thanks. With this change, I think also other users can be more comfortable so.
Phyllis, I am so sorry for your ears and the controversy about"the edge/s of the plugin (effect) not follow the edit, in some cases". My personal opinion is that the edge/s should follow the edit. Maybe, if other users want to say something about, it would be better. I would like to know their impressions. Thanks.
IgorBeg
I know we discussed this before, but right now in the little editing I'm doing, the inability of the new Ripple tool to work as it should from the beginning (left side) of a timeline clip, creates a real problem for me. I want to adjust a cut I already made earlier in the editing, I want to extend the end of the previous clip (no problem, it works...) and make the beginning of the next clip start earlier, without changing the end... Impossible! The current Ripple does not allow me to do this, I would have to delete it and reinsert it again into its new dimension. There's a problem here.... Pierre On 19-02-02 06 h 06, Igor BEGHETTO wrote:
1) Ripple tool (more used). I can see, now, that Ripple tool is not a very ripple edit, for me. I know (knew at this point) that Ripple tool may made shorter or longera clip. Now I can made shorter or longer a clip only on right side of that clip. I added a screencast: https://streamable.com/1vs0f For me the right way is like before. I added a quickly scheme with four cases, following your scheme. (See file "ripple-edit.txt" appended).
IgorB/Pierre: We have come up with a plan to allow for usage of the older Ripple methodology too. Has not been coded in yet though. Will let you know soon. gg/Phyllis
Thanks for the info. Consider that in the last built (cinelerra-5.1-ub16.04:static built dated Feb13 2019) I see the three foundamental mode with LMB, MMB, RMB are inusable for me. I don't know as others users can works without them. When i drag an edge with Shift+*MB in Program's Timeline (arrow left or right showed) the split view in Compositor always shows two views, side by side, of the left clip in the timeline, never the left clip on the side left of the Compositor and the right clip on the side right of the Compositor. As you know, I am still using the very good and stable Cin-GG built dated 21081231. Thanks. IgorBeg Il 14/02/2019 2.06, Phyllis Smith ha scritto:
IgorB/Pierre:
We have come up with a plan to allow for usage of the older Ripple methodology too. Has not been coded in yet though. Will let you know soon. gg/Phyllis
participants (3)
-
Igor BEGHETTO -
Phyllis Smith -
Pierre autourduglobe