Hello, all! Today I asked Eugenia Loli about what she thinks about modern free/open video editors for Linux, and she pointed me at something I never heard before : https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7122.0 Topic: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo) ----------------------- for developers: mlv file structures in C: here (LGPL) https://www.magiclantern.fm/modules/modules/mlv_structure.zip/mlv_structure.... ----------------------- forum thread have like 86 pages, so it will take _a while_ to just read.
Andrew: I never heard of this before either. I will have gg look at it as from the few pages I read, it sounds like there are some possible gains to using this. Anyway it never hurts to add more formats and see the possibilites. Thanks for pointing it out, Phyllis https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7122.0
Topic: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
forum thread have like 86 pages, so it will take _a while_ to just read.
Hi Andrew, Thank you for the news. Can I put the link back on the forum? It could also be of interest to occasional visitors.
В сообщении от Sunday 10 February 2019 22:28:55 Andrea paz написал(а):
Hi Andrew, Thank you for the news. Can I put the link back on the forum? It could also be of interest to occasional visitors.
I think yes, because it really already link to another forum :} I only read up to p. 13, message #316 :}
В сообщении от Sunday 10 February 2019 22:28:55 Andrea paz написал(а):
Hi Andrew, Thank you for the news. Can I put the link back on the forum? It could also be of interest to occasional visitors.
upd: while reading forum found link to test files, they are still there, I hope (watched preview for already converted into avi 5 sec clip) https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BwQ2MOkAZTFHb3lmaTMzUV9uMWc
This morning GG had time to look at this. (BTW, he is not much for reading or writing email so I have to let him know and then type in his response, so sometimes I do not get it all conveyed correctly). When I initially read only a few of the 86 pages, I searched for some download MLV examples and downloaded a couple from one place and then 1 from where Andrew mentioned. Apparently ffmpeg can load them into cinelerra and the Video compression in Info is rawvideo, but of course they look awful as is (maybe a proper LUT would solve this?). We also checked to see if "dcraw" of Dave Coffin handles this raw format as that is his area of expertise and saw no reference on his web site concerning Magic Lantern. But we still tried using Cinelerra's probe order in Settings to see whether his included program handled it. It did not. Bottom line is that if there is ever a user who really needs to be able to handle MLV files in cinelerra, gg could see about doing that and will keep this in mind. gg/Phyllis
Hello all Raw video from machine visions can be handled like that ffmpeg -threads 4 -f rawvideo -pixel_format bgr24 -r 16 -video_size 2332x1752 -i reel02_dec -pix_fmt rgb24 -vcodec qtrle -r 16 /home/movies_bretagne/reel02.mov another example for 48 bits ffmpeg -threads 4 -f rawvideo -pixel_format bgr48 -video_size 2332x1404 -i Reel3976_dec -pix_fmt rgb48 whatever_codec_one_wants_to_use Reel3976.mov I believe trying to incorporate it into Cinelerra is a bit pointless, if anything an export in TIFF files proves to work faster and Cinelerra is already equipped for that. Depending on the machine bgr24/48 may need to be rgb24/48. I use either of them depending on the camera I use Only if my assumption of the rawvideo concept is what we are talking about here !CheersEd On Tue, 2019-02-12 at 12:53 -0700, Phyllis Smith wrote:
This morning GG had time to look at this. (BTW, he is not much for reading or writing email so I have to let him know and then type in his response, so sometimes I do not get it all conveyed correctly).
When I initially read only a few of the 86 pages, I searched for some download MLV examples and downloaded a couple from one place and then 1 from where Andrew mentioned. Apparently ffmpeg can load them into cinelerra and the Video compression in Info is rawvideo, but of course they look awful as is (maybe a proper LUT would solve this?).
We also checked to see if "dcraw" of Dave Coffin handles this raw format as that is his area of expertise and saw no reference on his web site concerning Magic Lantern. But we still tried using Cinelerra's probe order in Settings to see whether his included program handled it. It did not.
Bottom line is that if there is ever a user who really needs to be able to handle MLV files in cinelerra, gg could see about doing that and will keep this in mind. gg/Phyllis
В сообщении от Tuesday 12 February 2019 23:35:50 edouard chalaron написал(а):
Hello all Raw video from machine visions can be handled like that ffmpeg -threads 4 -f rawvideo -pixel_format bgr24 -r 16 -video_size 2332x1752 -i reel02_dec -pix_fmt rgb24 -vcodec qtrle -r 16 /home/movies_bretagne/reel02.mov another example for 48 bits ffmpeg -threads 4 -f rawvideo -pixel_format bgr48 -video_size 2332x1404 -i Reel3976_dec -pix_fmt rgb48 whatever_codec_one_wants_to_use Reel3976.mov I believe trying to incorporate it into Cinelerra is a bit pointless, if anything an export in TIFF files proves to work faster and Cinelerra is already equipped for that.
Point was to avoid huge intermediate files, I think, and save some time, too. But well, ffmpeg apparently handles those files a bit wrongly - for example by default it tries to stuff data into just rgb24 - probably ok for display, but whole point of those huge raw files was additional color precision (and avoidance of h264 artefacts). from https://thndl.com/life-without-artifacts.html ------quote--------- So, I've taken the plunge and moved to RAW. I have hundreds of gigabytes (seriously) of artifact-free footage recorded in the latest Magic Lantern MLV (RAW v2) file format. Now what. How do I watch it? The tools seem to be lagging a bit behind here. The start of most "workflow" right now is to use the mlv2dng tool to create individual files for each raw frame in the video in Adobe's widely understood DNG format. If you have a Mac or Windows, those thousands of DNGS can then be imported either into a tool like Adobe After Effects, or DaVinci Resolve (which currently needs an NVIDIA GPU). Those allow fine control of colour mapping (usually called "grading") and other effects using the full colur resolution, before you finally convert the result into a compressed video. If you're using Linux, like me, different options are needed. A not-so-quick but dirty way to preview the video is to use a couple of commands like: dcraw -T *.dng ffmpeg -i %6d.tiff -vcodec mjpeg -r 25 -q:v 1 video.avi This can still take a little while to churn through the images, and then ffmpeg doesn't always seem to do a great job mapping the colour ranges. But it works. Only don't forget to delete all the intermediate files afterwards otherwise you will have quintupled your file space. This approach quickly got tedious for me after working with more than a few videos. What I really wanted was something that could just play all the raw videos directly like any other video format, so I could decide which ones deserved further editing. --------------end of quote---- quote above talks about MLV files specifically
Depending on the machine bgr24/48 may need to be rgb24/48. I use either of them depending on the camera I use Only if my assumption of the rawvideo concept is what we are talking about here !CheersEd
On Tue, 2019-02-12 at 12:53 -0700, Phyllis Smith wrote:
This morning GG had time to look at this. (BTW, he is not much for reading or writing email so I have to let him know and then type in his response, so sometimes I do not get it all conveyed correctly).
When I initially read only a few of the 86 pages, I searched for some download MLV examples and downloaded a couple from one place and then 1 from where Andrew mentioned. Apparently ffmpeg can load them into cinelerra and the Video compression in Info is rawvideo, but of course they look awful as is (maybe a proper LUT would solve this?).
We also checked to see if "dcraw" of Dave Coffin handles this raw format as that is his area of expertise and saw no reference on his web site concerning Magic Lantern. But we still tried using Cinelerra's probe order in Settings to see whether his included program handled it. It did not.
Bottom line is that if there is ever a user who really needs to be able to handle MLV files in cinelerra, gg could see about doing that and will keep this in mind. gg/Phyllis
Point was to avoid huge intermediate files, I think, and save some time, too. But well, ffmpeg apparently handles those files a bit wrongly - for example by default it tries to stuff data into just rgb24 - probably ok for display, but whole point of those huge raw files was additional color precision (and avoidance of h264 artefacts). Agreed but there is a trade off between time and storage.Storage getting cheaper by the minute, I choose to use storage, on RAID0 or SSDs I read that you want to avoid big files and also avoid h264 artefacts, fair enough, I think everyone would like it.Truth is ... I don't believe it's that possible. Exporting Raw to H264 for editing is not a good idea anyway as you mentionnedAnd getting Raw to a readable format is not fast and it has to be done at some at some stage. Unless GG comes up with another miracle ! :-D So which codec then .. PRORES does handle 10 bits and up 4444, which is pretty good for color resolution.DNX was better but more limiting and not sure if it handles more than 24with PRORES you can throw any geometry, frame rate, color depth or about You can also export in TIFF either 24 or 48 bits with ffmpeg (even more than 48 actually), depending on your source.Cin is very fast to open a sequence of TIFF files.Then you are sure that you are not loosing any color info, PRORES still being a (slightly) lossy codec. I dont think there is any point exporting in h264 unless you do a lossless, but then ... export in TIFF files, faster / better. A bit of a Neanderthal solution, I agree, but reliable. As for ffmpeg reading the stream, ffmpeg won't find out, it's raw video, there is zero info as per what ffmpeg should read, hence the command line aboveIn my case it's either rgbXX or bgrXX (I think there is more than just these 2 though) As I see it, trying to incorporate raw video in Cin* is reinventing the wheel.There is already the tools needed for conversion and Cinelerra is an editing software not a video converter. Just sharing my experience / needs / ideas etc ... CheersEd
from https://thndl.com/life-without-artifacts.html
------quote--------- So, I've taken the plunge and moved to RAW. I have hundreds of gigabytes (seriously) of artifact-free footage recorded in the latest Magic Lantern MLV (RAW v2) file format. Now what. How do I watch it? The tools seem to be lagging a bit behind here. The start of most "workflow" right now is to use the mlv2dng tool to create individual files for each raw frame in the video in Adobe's widely understood DNG format. If you have a Mac or Windows, those thousands of DNGS can then be imported either into a tool like Adobe After Effects, or DaVinci Resolve (which currently needs an NVIDIA GPU). Those allow fine control of colour mapping (usually called "grading") and other effects using the full colur resolution, before you finally convert the result into a compressed video. If you're using Linux, like me, different options are needed. A not- so-quick but dirty way to preview the video is to use a couple of commands like: dcraw -T *.dng ffmpeg -i %6d.tiff -vcodec mjpeg -r 25 -q:v 1 video.avi
This can still take a little while to churn through the images, and then ffmpeg doesn't always seem to do a great job mapping the colour ranges. But it works. Only don't forget to delete all the intermediate files afterwards otherwise you will have quintupled your file space. This approach quickly got tedious for me after working with more than a few videos. What I really wanted was something that could just play all the raw videos directly like any other video format, so I could decide which ones deserved further editing.
--------------end of quote----
quote above talks about MLV files specifically
Depending on the machine bgr24/48 may need to be rgb24/48. I use either of them depending on the camera I use Only if my assumption of the rawvideo concept is what we are talking about here !CheersEd
On Tue, 2019-02-12 at 12:53 -0700, Phyllis Smith wrote:
This morning GG had time to look at this. (BTW, he is not much for reading or writing email so I have to let him know and then type in his response, so sometimes I do not get it all conveyed correctly).
When I initially read only a few of the 86 pages, I searched for some download MLV examples and downloaded a couple from one place and then 1 from where Andrew mentioned. Apparently ffmpeg can load them into cinelerra and the Video compression in Info is rawvideo, but of course they look awful as is (maybe a proper LUT would solve this?).
We also checked to see if "dcraw" of Dave Coffin handles this raw format as that is his area of expertise and saw no reference on his web site concerning Magic Lantern. But we still tried using Cinelerra's probe order in Settings to see whether his included program handled it. It did not.
Bottom line is that if there is ever a user who really needs to be able to handle MLV files in cinelerra, gg could see about doing that and will keep this in mind. gg/Phyllis
Update! Eugenia suggested to look at this app instead (much more modern, open-source) : https://github.com/ilia3101/MLV-App В сообщении от Tuesday 12 February 2019 23:35:50 edouard chalaron написал(а):
Hello all Raw video from machine visions can be handled like that ffmpeg -threads 4 -f rawvideo -pixel_format bgr24 -r 16 -video_size 2332x1752 -i reel02_dec -pix_fmt rgb24 -vcodec qtrle -r 16 /home/movies_bretagne/reel02.mov another example for 48 bits ffmpeg -threads 4 -f rawvideo -pixel_format bgr48 -video_size 2332x1404 -i Reel3976_dec -pix_fmt rgb48 whatever_codec_one_wants_to_use Reel3976.mov I believe trying to incorporate it into Cinelerra is a bit pointless, if anything an export in TIFF files proves to work faster and Cinelerra is already equipped for that. Depending on the machine bgr24/48 may need to be rgb24/48. I use either of them depending on the camera I use Only if my assumption of the rawvideo concept is what we are talking about here !CheersEd
On Tue, 2019-02-12 at 12:53 -0700, Phyllis Smith wrote:
This morning GG had time to look at this. (BTW, he is not much for reading or writing email so I have to let him know and then type in his response, so sometimes I do not get it all conveyed correctly).
When I initially read only a few of the 86 pages, I searched for some download MLV examples and downloaded a couple from one place and then 1 from where Andrew mentioned. Apparently ffmpeg can load them into cinelerra and the Video compression in Info is rawvideo, but of course they look awful as is (maybe a proper LUT would solve this?).
We also checked to see if "dcraw" of Dave Coffin handles this raw format as that is his area of expertise and saw no reference on his web site concerning Magic Lantern. But we still tried using Cinelerra's probe order in Settings to see whether his included program handled it. It did not.
Bottom line is that if there is ever a user who really needs to be able to handle MLV files in cinelerra, gg could see about doing that and will keep this in mind. gg/Phyllis
participants (4)
-
Andrea paz -
Andrew Randrianasulu -
edouard chalaron -
Phyllis Smith