Re: [Cin] offtopic: Digitize and record Audio via Line-In Jack or via USB adapter?
Your MSI Z170-A PRO motherboard has according to specs a Realtec AL892 audio chip. The input converters should have 90 dB S/N (signal-to- noise) ratio (A-weighted), but of course the motherboard might make it a little worse. However, from you record player of tape you will be very lucky to get better than 65 dB S/N. So if an A-D converter has a S/N of 70 dB or better, it is more than good enough for this. Regarding your PC input channels, on current desktop motherboards I usually see three 3.5 mm mini-jacks. Their recording quality for line- in is close to 90 dB S/N or even above 100 on the better ones. In pavucontrol (audio mixer), first check the configuration tab, to see if the Built-in Audio is set up correctly. "Analog stereo duplex" is probably right. Then, on the "Input devices" tab, at the bottom set it to show "Hardware Input Devices", then check that the Port is set to the correct port. For me, "Line In" shows correctly if something is plugged in or not. Make also sure the gain is set to 100%. That said, I sometimes have problems recording LineIn with Audacity, even though all seems OK. have not yet determined what the cause is. External USB sound cards can be quite good, if you stay away from the very cheap ones that are mic/phone only. I have a Behringer UCA-202 which is good enough for this, but there are much better ones (at a price), look at music-oriented webshops. I presume to have an RIAA pre- amp for you record player, these are usually set up for less output that typical PC or usb-audio input, which expect 1 Volt. Drivers are not needed, and disregard any reviews that don't show measurements. MatN
I'm travelling some days, so sorry I have to wait a week to practically follow up the replies. I have speakers connected to the back panel audio ports and possibly also a mic. In the meantime thanks for the received suggestion and detailed information. What is really the "A/D converter" using analog ports in comparision with an usb A/D adapter? Terje tor. 23. sep. 2021, 09:34 skrev mat via Cin <[email protected]>:
Your MSI Z170-A PRO motherboard has according to specs a Realtec AL892 audio chip. The input converters should have 90 dB S/N (signal-to- noise) ratio (A-weighted), but of course the motherboard might make it a little worse. However, from you record player of tape you will be very lucky to get better than 65 dB S/N. So if an A-D converter has a S/N of 70 dB or better, it is more than good enough for this.
Regarding your PC input channels, on current desktop motherboards I usually see three 3.5 mm mini-jacks. Their recording quality for line- in is close to 90 dB S/N or even above 100 on the better ones.
In pavucontrol (audio mixer), first check the configuration tab, to see if the Built-in Audio is set up correctly. "Analog stereo duplex" is probably right. Then, on the "Input devices" tab, at the bottom set it to show "Hardware Input Devices", then check that the Port is set to the correct port. For me, "Line In" shows correctly if something is plugged in or not. Make also sure the gain is set to 100%. That said, I sometimes have problems recording LineIn with Audacity, even though all seems OK. have not yet determined what the cause is.
External USB sound cards can be quite good, if you stay away from the very cheap ones that are mic/phone only. I have a Behringer UCA-202 which is good enough for this, but there are much better ones (at a price), look at music-oriented webshops. I presume to have an RIAA pre- amp for you record player, these are usually set up for less output that typical PC or usb-audio input, which expect 1 Volt. Drivers are not needed, and disregard any reviews that don't show measurements.
MatN
-- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
The Realtec ALC892 audi chip used on your (and may other) motherboards have for input two stereo A/D converters, which can do 16/20/24-bit, and 44.1k/48k/96k/192kHz sample rates. Because the analog front end is specified as 90 dB(A), and 16 bits in itself is 96 dB, there is little point in using more than 16 bits, unless it needs to be mixed with 20 or 24 bit signals. The highest sample rates usually cause a loss in precision, and bandtwith is limited to 22 kHz mostly (I think motherboard determines that). How this compares to external USB sound cards I don't know, have not looked at measurements. The Behringer UCA202 I once measured, and S/N was 70 dB. Which was way below the noise from the cassettes I digitized, so prefect for this. MatN On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 22:33:50 +0200 "Terje J. Hanssen via Cin" <[email protected]> wrote:
I'm travelling some days, so sorry I have to wait a week to practically follow up the replies.
I have speakers connected to the back panel audio ports and possibly also a mic. In the meantime thanks for the received suggestion and detailed information.
What is really the "A/D converter" using analog ports in comparision with an usb A/D adapter?
Terje
Thanks a lot for this information. I'v found a near identical(?) model at an affordable price, Behringer U-Phono UFO202 USB Vinyl Audio interface https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0A12 I wonder if it is possible to record and save audio in FLAC lossless compressed format in any application on Linux? Terje fre. 24. sep. 2021, 13:58 skrev mnieuw--- via Cin < [email protected]>:
The Realtec ALC892 audi chip used on your (and may other) motherboards have for input two stereo A/D converters, which can do 16/20/24-bit, and 44.1k/48k/96k/192kHz sample rates. Because the analog front end is specified as 90 dB(A), and 16 bits in itself is 96 dB, there is little point in using more than 16 bits, unless it needs to be mixed with 20 or 24 bit signals. The highest sample rates usually cause a loss in precision, and bandtwith is limited to 22 kHz mostly (I think motherboard determines that).
How this compares to external USB sound cards I don't know, have not looked at measurements. The Behringer UCA202 I once measured, and S/N was 70 dB. Which was way below the noise from the cassettes I digitized, so prefect for this.
MatN
On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 22:33:50 +0200 "Terje J. Hanssen via Cin" <[email protected]> wrote:
I'm travelling some days, so sorry I have to wait a week to practically follow up the replies.
I have speakers connected to the back panel audio ports and possibly also a mic. In the meantime thanks for the received suggestion and detailed information.
What is really the "A/D converter" using analog ports in comparision with an usb A/D adapter?
Terje -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
The UFO202 is the UCA2020 with built-in phono preamp. Its inputs can be switched between phone and line. I do not know how good that pre-amp is, but Behringer in general has excellent value for money. Audacity can record audio, it uses an internal 32 bit floating point format by default, which is the best IMHO. It exports in a number of formats, for FLAC select the audio you want to export, choose File->export_select_audio, choose the flac format in the drop-down box near the right bottom. Change the file extension in .flac. I use Audacity multiple times per week. MatN On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 21:22:57 +0200 "Terje J. Hanssen via Cin" <[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks a lot for this information. I'v found a near identical(?) model at an affordable price, Behringer U-Phono UFO202 USB Vinyl Audio interface https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0A12
I wonder if it is possible to record and save audio in FLAC lossless compressed format in any application on Linux?
Terje
fre. 24. sep. 2021, 13:58 skrev mnieuw--- via Cin < [email protected]>:
The Realtec ALC892 audi chip used on your (and may other) motherboards have for input two stereo A/D converters, which can do 16/20/24-bit, and 44.1k/48k/96k/192kHz sample rates. Because the analog front end is specified as 90 dB(A), and 16 bits in itself is 96 dB, there is little point in using more than 16 bits, unless it needs to be mixed with 20 or 24 bit signals. The highest sample rates usually cause a loss in precision, and bandtwith is limited to 22 kHz mostly (I think motherboard determines that).
How this compares to external USB sound cards I don't know, have not looked at measurements. The Behringer UCA202 I once measured, and S/N was 70 dB. Which was way below the noise from the cassettes I digitized, so prefect for this.
MatN
On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 22:33:50 +0200 "Terje J. Hanssen via Cin" <[email protected]> wrote:
I'm travelling some days, so sorry I have to wait a week to practically follow up the replies.
I have speakers connected to the back panel audio ports and possibly also a mic. In the meantime thanks for the received suggestion and detailed information.
What is really the "A/D converter" using analog ports in comparision with an usb A/D adapter?
Terje -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Math, I have now ordered Behringer UFO202. For me this audio usb interface looks to be improved beyond UCA202 Line-IN for tape players to cover also turntables with a switchable Phono preamp. There was however expressed some doubt thought in a previous Mint forum reply (reply) https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=213328 But UFO202 has been listed as Linux compatible here https://github.com/lpil/linux-audio-interface-compatibility and rated medium entry level among the 12 best turntable preamps here https://fatcityturntables.com/best-preamps-for-turntables-buyers-guide-with-... I expect my (S)VHS VCR decks with Line-Out are still working as tape player(s) (for my backup music on HQ-VHS tapes transfered from the legacy reel tapes). If I get no better loan options for compact cassette and record players, I have thougt of a new, affordable combined unit, Technaxx TX-22, with RCA-Out. It can also (standalone) digitize and record mp3 to usb memory stick at (low) 128 kbps, possibly also set to some better at 256 kbps bitrate https://www.technaxx.de/products-detail/?pid=4717&cid=525 Terje søn. 26. sep. 2021, 00:28 skrev <[email protected]>:
The UFO202 is the UCA2020 with built-in phono preamp. Its inputs can be switched between phone and line.
I do not know how good that pre-amp is, but Behringer in general has excellent value for money.
Audacity can record audio, it uses an internal 32 bit floating point format by default, which is the best IMHO. It exports in a number of formats, for FLAC select the audio you want to export, choose File->export_select_audio, choose the flac format in the drop-down box near the right bottom. Change the file extension in .flac. I use Audacity multiple times per week.
MatN
On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 21:22:57 +0200 "Terje J. Hanssen via Cin" <[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks a lot for this information. I'v found a near identical(?) model at an affordable price, Behringer U-Phono UFO202 USB Vinyl Audio interface https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0A12
I wonder if it is possible to record and save audio in FLAC lossless compressed format in any application on Linux?
Terje
fre. 24. sep. 2021, 13:58 skrev mnieuw--- via Cin < [email protected]>:
The Realtec ALC892 audi chip used on your (and may other) motherboards have for input two stereo A/D converters, which can do 16/20/24-bit, and 44.1k/48k/96k/192kHz sample rates. Because the analog front end is specified as 90 dB(A), and 16 bits in itself is 96 dB, there is little point in using more than 16 bits, unless it needs to be mixed with 20 or 24 bit signals. The highest sample rates usually cause a loss in precision, and bandtwith is limited to 22 kHz mostly (I think motherboard determines that).
How this compares to external USB sound cards I don't know, have not looked at measurements. The Behringer UCA202 I once measured, and S/N was 70 dB. Which was way below the noise from the cassettes I digitized, so prefect for this.
MatN
On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 22:33:50 +0200 "Terje J. Hanssen via Cin" <[email protected]> wrote:
I'm travelling some days, so sorry I have to wait a week to practically follow up the replies.
I have speakers connected to the back panel audio ports and possibly also a mic. In the meantime thanks for the received suggestion and detailed information.
What is really the "A/D converter" using analog ports in comparision with an usb A/D adapter?
Terje -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Terje, I found out which USB grabber I was using. It was the Basetech EasyCap BT116; the same device might well have been sold under a different name. On Windows, VLC gave a lot of errors, but OBS handled it fine. It only handled standard SD format, not HD, so output is alwasy 4:3 . But for me using Linux Mint, it worked with VLC, but not Cinelerra. MatN
Mat Den 23.09.2021 09:34, skrev mat via Cin:
......snip
In pavucontrol (audio mixer), first check the configuration tab, to see if the Built-in Audio is set up correctly. "Analog stereo duplex" is probably right. Then, on the "Input devices" tab, at the bottom set it to show "Hardware Input Devices", then check that the Port is set to the correct port. For me, "Line In" shows correctly if something is plugged in or not. Make also sure the gain is set to 100%. That said, I sometimes have problems recording LineIn with Audacity, even though all seems OK. have not yet determined what the cause is.
Den 26.09.2021 00:28, skrev [email protected]:
......snip
Audacity can record audio, it uses an internal 32 bit floating point format by default, which is the best IMHO. It exports in a number of formats, for FLAC select the audio you want to export, choose File->export_select_audio, choose the flac format in the drop-down box near the right bottom. Change the file extension in .flac. I use Audacity multiple times per week.
Den 27.09.2021 /21:44/, skrev [email protected]:
I just plugged in my UCA202, and the system (Mint 20.2 XFCE) immediately recognized it. It shows up in the audio mixer (pavucontrol) as an extra input device and extra output device, both as "PCM2902 Audio Codec Analog Stereo".
1) My Behringer UFO202 USB Audio interface has arrived. As a first and easy test I have connected it to a PC USB port, the RCA IN L+R to RCA OUT on a Toshiba videoplayer playing an Audio music CD, and third connected earphones to UFO202. 2) Yes, I hear the playback sound in the earphones, however no sound if I plugin the earphones to the normal rear PC backplane's Jack, and no sound in the corresponding speakers. Correct so far? 3) pavucontrol Configuration | *PCM2902 Audio Codec* Profile: Analog Stereo Duplex * Input Devices | Hardware devices | Hardware Input Devices: PCM2902 Audio Codec Analog Stereo, Port: Analog Input response Built-in Audio Analog stereo, Port: Rear Microphone (plugged in) Respons!? 4) UFO202 is discovered on my Leap 15.3 as *Device 4 **Texas Instruments PCM2902 Audio Codec* as follows: *# inxi -Fxz* ..... Audio: Device-1: Intel 100 Series/C230 Series Family HD Audio vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:1f.3 Device-2: NVIDIA GK208 HDMI/DP Audio vendor: ASUSTeK driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 01:00.1 Device-3: Microdia Camera type: USB driver: snd-usb-audio,uvcvideo bus ID: 1-11:3 * Device-4: Texas Instruments PCM2902 Audio Codec type: USB* driver: hid-generic,snd-usb-audio,usbhid bus ID: 1-13:4 Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.3.18-59.24-default ........ ~> *lsusb* Bus 002 Device 003: ID 05e3:0732 Genesys Logic, Inc. All-in-One Cardreader Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0bc2:2322 Seagate RSS LLC SRD0NF1 Expansion Portable (STEA) Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub Bus 001 Device 002: ID 046d:c534 Logitech, Inc. Unifying Receiver *Bus 001 Device 004: ID 08bb:2902 Texas Instruments PCM2902 Audio Codec* Bus 001 Device 003: ID 0c45:6340 Microdia Camera Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub ............ terje@localhost:~> pacmd list-sources | egrep '^\s+name: .*alsa_input' name: <alsa_input.usb-Sonix_Technology_Co.__Ltd._USB_2.0_Camera-02.mono-fallback> * name: <alsa_input.usb-Burr-Brown_from_TI_USB_Audio_CODEC-00.analog-stereo>* name: <alsa_input.pci-0000_00_1f.3.analog-stereo> 5) I am unsure how to practically go from here to record the Audio music files. 6) Pulse audio or Alsa, what's the difference and how to select/set each of them? 7) Record with Pulse Audio Volum control (pavucontrol), Audacitty or possibly Gnome-sound-recorder? 8) Which tab/buttons for input in Audiacity (possibly tape/noise filters) - I could not find the PCM2902 input or see any sound response here 9) Would it be reasonable to record and archive in lossless FLAC format and afterwards convert with ffmpeg? to smaller files format of good quality, typical MP3 at 320 kbps (for car usb player) and MP4A for home HiFi? 10) Do you have command or gui procedures for these? Thanks Terje
participants (3)
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mat -
mnieuw＠zap.a2000.nl
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Terje J. Hanssen