I was reading the manual "CinelerraGG_manual.pdf" (created March 31 2019) and the manual "CinelerraGG_manual_WIP.pdf" (dated 20190826) by LaTex about Nested Clips. (really good job, guys. And I could print it on the paper in a A5 size) I noticed... - "CinelerraGG_manual.pdf", pg.116, Nested Clips - "CinelerraGG_manual_WIP.pdf", pg.122, Nested Clips The final sentence: "...compositions. They can not be proxied" By my tests/works, you CAN create proxies for Nested clips. Proxies are created in Cinelerra folder (where there is "cin" file) instead of the clip folder as usual (with Cin TAR version. With Package version I don't know). Before saving your project, pay attention to disable Proxy feature. You MUST SAVE your PROJECT with PROXY DISABLED otherwise you lose the link to the clips (more or less). Is it right that proxies are created in Cinelerra folder? Is there any reasons they are not created in the clip folder? Thanks. IgorBeg
IgorB: we do not quite understand your email, but here is our current understanding. By my tests/works, you CAN create proxies for Nested clips.
Proxies are created in Cinelerra folder (where there is "cin" file) instead of the clip folder as usual (with Cin TAR version. With Package version I don't know).
....
The final sentence: "...compositions. They can not be proxied" (that is clips)
For a regular clip --- if you proxy your session, the clip does not get proxied at all. For a clip that is created and then nested --- it does not actually proxy the clip. It proxied the nested EDL which was created from the clip when you did the nesting which ended up in the Media folder. BUT if you try to drag the nested EDL from the Proxy folder, you can not put it on the timeline or in the Viewer to play -- thus the statement that clips can not be proxied.
Proxies are created in Cinelerra folder (where there is "cin" file) instead of the clip folder as usual (with Cin TAR version. With Package version I don't know).
What is the Cinelerra folder? Is that the same as the Media folder?
Is it right that proxies are created in Cinelerra folder?
Proxies are only created in the Proxy folder as far as we can tell with the "proxy" as part of the name.
Is there any reasons they are not created in the clip folder?
Proxies are not created in the clip folder, if they were to proxy, because all files with the "proxy" in their name are in the Proxy folder. I am not sure if now I am more confused than I was before starting this message! but I had gg's help.
I've never used nested assets/clips before, so I can't judge. However, the nesting section of the manual seems to me to be unclear and incomplete. Is it possible to improve it by explaining how nesting works and what is it for (especially nested clips)?
@Phyllis *- For a regular clip**.*
if you proxy your session, the clip does not get proxied at all Okay. You don't see that clip in Proxy Folder but if you drag&drop that clip from Clip Folder to the Viewer or to Timeline, it will use its own proxy.
*- For a clip that is created and then nested**.*
it does not actually proxy the clip. It proxied the nested EDL which was created from the clip when you did the nesting which ended up in the Media folder. Yes, you are right and you explained it very well.
BUT if you try to drag the nested EDL from the Proxy folder, you can not put it on the timeline or in the Viewer to play Again, you are right, but you can do that from Clip Folder and, there, if you have proxied, then Cinelerrea will use proxy files.
The clips in Clip Folder use proxy files if Proxy feature is enabled. I don't know how it works inside Cinelerrra program but, luckily for me, it works and I always use it.
Proxies are only created in the Proxy folder as far as we can tell with the "proxy" as part of the name. I try to explain better. Usually proxy files of the media (videos, images) are created in the path (folder) where the media are. But the proxy files of the Nested Clips are created in Cinelerra program path (folder).
@Andrea_paz
the nesting section of the manual seems to me to be unclear and incomplete. For me the Nested section in the manual is explained well and may be it needs to add something. However I always must find a workaround to use Proxy and may be that, with my e-mail/screencasts, I confuse all of you. Sorry.
Thanks! IgorBeg
For me the Nested section in the manual is explained well and may be it needs to add something.
My doubt about nested assets is that, being autonomous EDLs, they can be saved, stored and then used in another project? Can you do the same for nested clips? What are the nested clips for? Only to have a complete clip (EDL actually) of the effects and keyframes? Can I just nest a single clip or can I group more than one? I'm sorry, with some tests I could understand for myself the use of nested clips, but these questions came to me when I was examining the manual, and now I don't have my PC at hand.
Andrea_paz, Nested clips may be used for differents goal/scenarios. Two stupid examples. 1) Consider you want to make a kind of flashback-rewind at the end of your video (your "whole" life in a istant). You have, in timeline, 60 seconds of edits with clips, cuts, zoom in, zoom out and so on. And you want put this 60 seconds "compressed" to 10 seconds and play in reverse (and also in black and white colour) at the end of your video. Then you can copy the 60 seconds in a clip, nesting that clip and put it in timeline. You will see only a clean clip. And then you will add the Reverse effect and Speed effect (and Color3way for the black and white). Your timeline will be more clean. 2) You are working in a Team or You are alone and your project is really complex (see Deim @deim31 problem?) Then you can create some sequences that you (or the Master director) will use in the Master project to merge the sequences in the right order and to make the final colour correction step. Finally, the good thing of the Nest feature is that you you can see your Timeline really clean. I don't know if it can help. IgorBeg
Andrea: Thanks, it helps! I like your 'stupid' examples.
I wonder if we should include them in the manual. For these examples and for the changes proposed in the other message (sequences in a master project), I await the opinion of Phyllis.
I agree, nesting needs more explanation and reasons to use. I hope no one minds if I rewrite it a little though. Phyllis
Andrea: I wonder if we should include them in the manual.
For these examples and for the changes proposed in the other message (sequences in a master project), I await the opinion of Phyllis.
Here is the addition Nesting examples for the Nesting section BUT I have yet to understand IgorB's feedback on proxy with nesting that I would like to include also. So I will have to work on that tomorrow and then I will provide the .odt/.pdf files instead.
*Usage Examples of Nested Clips* Example 1: You want to make a flashback/rewind at the end of your video that represents a quick summary of the entire video in black and white. On the timeline, you have 60 seconds of edits with clips, cuts, zoom in, zoom out and any other edits. Now you want to get this 60 seconds "compressed" to 10 seconds, play in reverse, and in black and white at the end of your video. You would copy the 60 seconds in a clip, nest the clip in the Clip folder of the Resources window and drag it to the timeline. You will see only a clean clip without all of the edits that were used to create it because nesting performs a render without having to actually use the Render menu. Now you can add a Reverse effect, Color3way plugin for black and white, and use the Speed auto to get the 60 seconds down to only 10 seconds. Example 2: You are working on a complex project with a team in a separate location. You create some sub projects, i.e. sequences, that you or the team will use in the Master project to merge the sequences in the right order and to make the final color correction steps. In each of the examples you can see the benefit of nesting to create clean looking timelines because of the automatic rendering capability of nesting.
BUT I have yet to understand IgorB's feedback on proxy with nesting Phyllis, surely my terms (folder, path) was wrong there, sorry. I rewrite here again. Usually proxy files of the media (videos, images) are created in the directory where the media are. But the proxy files of the Nested Clips are created in Cinelerra-5.1 directory. I hope it clearer now.
You would copy the 60 seconds in a clip, nest the clip in the Clip folder of the Resources window and drag it to the timeline. You will see only a clean clip without all of the edits that were used to create it because nesting performs a render without having to actually use the Render menu. Now you can add a Reverse effect, Color3way plugin for black and white, and use the Speed auto to get the 60 seconds down to only 10 seconds. Mmh, in the sentence "... it because nesting performs a *render* without having to actually use the Render menu..." I don't like the *render* word because it sound to me like if it create an output rendering, but it is not so. It is like a clip.
Sorry, my time is up, today. Thanks. IgorBeg
Done. I put in Igor's last correction; but further changes are always possible. https://www.dropbox.com/s/0js49r47s0qu621/CinelerraGG_Manual.pdf?dl=0
I am working on fixing some information on "Nesting" and adding "Open EDL" section to the Editing.tex LaTex version of the manual. In doing so, I have been trying to finally understand more about nesting myself, in particular in respect to Proxy and IgorB's email. So here is some feedback on an old email. By my tests/works, you CAN create proxies for Nested clips.
I will correct this in the Latex Editing section.
Proxies are created in Cinelerra folder (where there is "cin" file)
This is a BUG ! (by Cinelerra folder, this means the Linux O/S cinelerra directory where the binary file is). It should be in the same directory as the original media and not here because it will not get easily deleted.
Before saving your project, pay attention to disable Proxy feature. You MUST SAVE your PROJECT with PROXY DISABLED otherwise you lose the link to the clips (more or less).
I just bet that this is related to the above BUG and I have informed gg and when the bug is fixed will check to see if this solves this problem also. Losing link to the clips is only referring to nested clips, not regular clips as far as I can tell. THANK you IgorB for pointing these anomalies out but sorry it took so long to get back to you and put it right in the manual. P.S. I am still trying to find the icons you supplied awhile back that replace the hand drawn ones used in the Load files menu. At the time I was too far behind, but now I would like to see if gg can use them.
Thanks Phyllis and GG. For the Nesting and Open_EDLI I will wait for a consolidate version. It is very time consuming to learn a workflow and then to change it again. Every time GG make a change in software it is a great time consuming also for who have to update the Manual, I think. Same think for who have (would like) to do a video tutorial. I like cinelerra-gg but I am not a fun of the rolling release. I would like a release where users have more time to test in depth; usually this pre-release is called candidate release (all of you know). So the Manual,and the video tutorial, has a few of time to reflect the software. Of course, even though a "stable" release is out, there would always be the rolling release (month release).
I am still trying to find the icons you supplied awhile back that replace the hand drawn ones used in the Load files menu. At the time I was too far behind, but now I would like to see if gg can use them. Okay. I added a "tar.gz" file for that.
IgorBeg PS: The new "Charlie" is with me.
IgorB: I forgot to mention that the bug described below is also fixed in the latest test builds. The created nested clips will now be saved in $HOME/Videos but you can change that in Settings->Preferences, Interface tab, "Nested Proxy Path". The old methodology of placing the nested files in the cinelerra directory (folder) was an unintended accident and leads to it being easily deleted every month when downloading a new build. As expected, fixing this bug means you should now be able to save a project while proxied! Proxies are created in Cinelerra folder (where there is "cin" file)
This is a BUG ! (by Cinelerra folder, this means the Linux O/S cinelerra directory where the binary file is). It should be in the same directory as the original media and not here because it will not get easily deleted.
Before saving your project, pay attention to disable Proxy feature. You MUST SAVE your PROJECT with PROXY DISABLED otherwise you lose the link to the clips (more or less).
I just bet that this is related to the above BUG and I have informed gg and when the bug is fixed will check to see if this solves this problem also. Losing link to the clips is only referring to nested clips, not regular clips as far as I can tell.
Really, really, very well! Thank you so much. And I saw that the Layout on Preference-> Appearance menu is changed. Good for me. IgorBeg Il 18/01/2020 22.54, Phyllis Smith ha scritto:
IgorB: I forgot to mention that the bug described below is also fixed in the latest test builds. The created nested clips will now be saved in $HOME/Videos but you can change that in Settings->Preferences, Interface tab, "Nested Proxy Path". The old methodology of placing the nested files in the cinelerra directory (folder) was an unintended accident and leads to it being easily deleted every month when downloading a new build. As expected, fixing this bug means you should now be able to save a project while proxied!
Proxies are created in Cinelerra folder (where there is "cin" file)
This is a BUG ! (by Cinelerra folder, this means the Linux O/S cinelerra directory where the binary file is). It should be in the same directory as the original media and not here because it will not get easily deleted.
Before saving your project, pay attention to disable Proxy feature. You MUST SAVE your PROJECT with PROXY DISABLED otherwise you lose the link to the clips (more or less).
I just bet that this is related to the above BUG and I have informed gg and when the bug is fixed will check to see if this solves this problem also. Losing link to the clips is only referring to nested clips, not regular clips as far as I can tell.
About Appearance tab, what do You think move the word "Flag:" as showed on my picture added?
The Appearance tab was getting too big and recently gg had to add another Warning checkbox so that is why it changed. I will see what he thinks about moving Flags -- to me your suggestion looks better -- he lined up Flags with the word Color above.
I think that GG's rearrange of the Appearance tab has been a good idea. I saw the alignment with the "Color" above, but Warnings + Flags are in three columns. My suggestion is only an idea. IgorBeg Il 19/01/2020 18.53, Phyllis Smith ha scritto:
About Appearance tab, what do You think move the word "Flag:" as showed on my picture added?
The Appearance tab was getting too big and recently gg had to add another Warning checkbox so that is why it changed. I will see what he thinks about moving Flags -- to me your suggestion looks better -- he lined up Flags with the word Color above.
IgorB: gg has moved the Flags as you suggested -- I think it looks better. On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 1:19 PM Igor BEGHETTO <[email protected]> wrote:
I think that GG's rearrange of the Appearance tab has been a good idea. I saw the alignment with the "Color" above, but Warnings + Flags are in three columns. My suggestion is only an idea.
participants (3)
-
Andrea paz -
Igor BEGHETTO -
Phyllis Smith