Feature discussion for linear editing
Recently I found a very nice introduction on linear editing for multi-cam. I finally understood how it should work in Cinelerra GG. But it is not intuitive, I would like to propose two things that could make multi-cam editing much more user friendly. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOMKP4Jgzw8> 1. As you can see from the video, multi-cam works by clicking on a Mixer. Completely counter intuitive towards anyone that works with a switcher (atem and likes) it adds video from the undecided point up to the current position when clicked on the mixer. This would be a feature request that I wonder why nobody asked for this: implement this in the opposite way. You click on a mixer A, then the timeline gets filled with that mixer (visible, or underwater). If you click on mixer B, the timeline is computed with the part 0 to timeline current position with Mixer A, and having Mixer B as start position. 2. Now you have set up your rough cut. What you would actually want is the ability to fine tune. I would like to have a drag handle functionality that would be able to modify the cut position. It should be able to move to left or right. The limits of this operation are bound by the source videos. One can move to the left beyond the left video, but only up to the point that the right video has data. The same goes for the move towards right. At this moment you can never get this right with trimming or extending, especially not when there is an audio track to match it below. Hence I think this function would benefit every editor. (feature-mouse.png) -- Stefan
Hopefully, "real" users will reply, but here is my take. Recently I found a very nice introduction on linear editing for multi-cam.
I finally understood how it should work in Cinelerra GG. But it is not intuitive, I would like to propose two things that could make multi-cam editing much more user friendly.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOMKP4Jgzw8>
1. As you can see from the video, multi-cam works by clicking on a Mixer. Completely counter intuitive towards anyone that works with a switcher (atem and likes) it adds video from the undecided point up to the current position when clicked on the mixer. This would be a feature request that I wonder why nobody asked for this: implement this in the opposite way. You click on a mixer A, then the timeline gets filled with that mixer (visible, or underwater). If you click on mixer B, the timeline is computed with the part 0 to timeline current position with Mixer A, and having Mixer B as start position.
It was probably programmed the way it is, because its usage was where you had multiple video recordings from different angles at the same time and the user wanted to pick the best one at that particular place. Like when recording a band playing with 3 cameras placed at different spots in the venue. Possibly your suggestion could be an alternative methodology but as for "If you click on mixer B, the timeline is computed with the part 0 to timeline current position with Mixer A", it might be very difficult to keep track of each tracks "part 0" as it changes to "part next start".
2. Now you have set up your rough cut. What you would actually want is the ability to fine tune. I would like to have a drag handle functionality that would be able to modify the cut position. It should be able to move to left or right. The limits of this operation are bound by the source videos. One can move to the left beyond the left video, but only up to the point that the right video has data. The same goes for the move towards right. At this moment you can never get this right with trimming or extending, especially not when there is an audio track to match it below. Hence I think this function would benefit every editor. (feature-mouse.png)
Maybe I do not understand, but there is a drag handle (in Cut and Paste editing mode) for fine tuning and it can be cut/moved from left or right. I tried to demonstrate this in: https://streamable.com/zfeuka The one thing missing per your suggestion though is for it to not go past where there is data. You should be able to use the drag handle to get exactly where you want to be by watching the Compositor window and then when you stop dragging, all of the small mixer windows update to that exact point.
On Sunday, January 23, 2022 2:44:30 AM CET, Phyllis Smith via Cin wrote:
It was probably programmed the way it is, because its usage was where you had multiple video recordings from different angles at the same time and the user wanted to pick the best one at that particular place. Like when recording a band playing with 3 cameras placed at different spots in the venue. Possibly your suggestion could be an alternative methodology but as for "If you click on mixer B, the timeline is computed with the part 0 to timeline current position with Mixer A", it might be very difficult to keep track of each tracks "part 0" as it changes to "part next start".
I think functionally it is: var currertMixer = first mixer var currentStart = timelinePosition (or 0) display in the compositor currentMixer while mixing: if any mixer is clicked or end mixer: timeline_track append currentMixer(currentStart, timelinePosition) currentMixer = mixer currentstart = timelinePosition
2. Now you have set up your rough cut. What you would actually want is the ability to fine tune. I would like to have a drag handle functionality that would be able to modify the cut position. It should be able to move to left ...
Maybe I do not understand, but there is a drag handle (in Cut and Paste editing mode) for fine tuning and it can be cut/moved from left or right. I tried to demonstrate this in: https://streamable.com/zfeuka The one thing missing per your suggestion though is for it to not go past where there is data. You should be able to use the drag handle to get exactly where you want to be by watching the Compositor window and then when you stop dragging, all of the small mixer windows update to that exact point.
I think in the movie you exactly show what goes wrong ;) At 0:42 you extend "Belle" this causes "dog" to move in time. If dog was aligned with the audio it is now completely unaligned. The modifier I am looking for would move the start position of the "dog" clip to the new end position of "Belle" clip, where the offset within the "dog" clip is changed with the same time, still aligning it with the tracks below. [A 1 2 B][B 3 4 D] => [A 1 2 3 C][C 4 D] -- Stefan
2. Now you have set up your rough cut. What you would actually want is the ability to fine tune. I would like to have a drag handle functionality that would be able to modify the cut position. It should be able to move to left or right. The limits of this operation are bound by the source videos. One can move to the left beyond the left video, but only up to the point that the right video has data. The same goes for the move towards right. At this moment you can never get this right with trimming or extending, especially not when there is an audio track to match it below. Hence I think this function would benefit every editor.
Like Phyllis wrote, Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voKxhxxUmok for that feature, please. Usually I use Rolling feature. If you want to perform a Rolling together to its Audio you have to use Group feature before. You can see how to Group to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoJKEtaGXc4 Once a Group is created you have to select that Group and using Rolling feature you can drag the left or right edges contemporary for Video and Audio. I don't know if my explanation may be enough. IgorBeg
On Sunday, January 23, 2022 10:53:11 AM CET, Igor BEGHETTO via Cin wrote:
Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voKxhxxUmok for that feature, please. Usually I use Rolling feature.
Rolling edits is exactly what I want! Thanks :) So that solves part two. -- Stefan
Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voKxhxxUmok for that feature, please. Usually I use Rolling feature.
Rolling edits is exactly what I want! Thanks :) So that solves part two.
Part 1 - it seems like "Drag and drop editing mode" might be a better fit than "Mixers" for your use case. I do not see any major programming features being implemented in the near future until some really motivated programmer retires ! (Thanks again, Igor, for Part 2 solution).
On Sunday, January 23, 2022 5:42:05 PM CET, Phyllis Smith via Cin wrote:
Part 1 - it seems like "Drag and drop editing mode" might be a better fit than "Mixers" for your use case.
Do you mean here making cut points, in all tracks, and then move them up into the timeline, after it doing rolling edits for fine tuning?
I do not see any major programming features being implemented in the near future until some really motivated programmer retires !
You would have to explain this joke to me. Is there a programmer now holding back to implement true improvements. Or are advanced features taking too much time next to a day job? -- Stefan
Mr. Konink, Phyllis Smith's comment was not a joke... It is in fact a rather sad mention. As she is rather discreet and reserved, I don't know if she will want to bring up this past. The GG version of Cinelerra was for many years developed by her life partner, W.P. Morrow (GG) who spent (with her) most of his time as a prolific retired developer. A little over a year ago he died... Mrs. Smith certainly hopes that one day another developer will decide to devote his time and talent to further developing Cinelerra GG. https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/news-updates/our-developer-good-guy-has-passed-... Pierre Le 22-01-23 à 12 h 06, Stefan de Konink via Cin a écrit :
I do not see any major programming features being implemented in the near future until some really motivated programmer retires !
You would have to explain this joke to me. Is there a programmer now holding back to implement true improvements. Or are advanced features taking too much time next to a day job?
Stefan wrote:
Recently I found a very nice introduction on linear editing for multi-cam. I finally understood how it should work in Cinelerra GG. But it is not intuitive, I would like to propose two things that could make multi-cam editing much more user friendly.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOMKP4Jgzw8>
1. As you can see from the video, multi-cam works by clicking on a Mixer. Completely counter intuitive towards anyone that works with a switcher (atem and likes) it adds video from the undecided point up to the current position when clicked on the mixer. This would be a feature request that I wonder why nobody asked for this: implement this in the opposite way. You click on a mixer A, then the timeline gets filled with that mixer (visible, or underwater). If you click on mixer B, the timeline is computed with the part 0 to timeline current position with Mixer A, and having Mixer B as start position.
I understand You, Stefan. Other NLE use a different workflow (see Adobe Premiere, Lightworks). When MultiCamera was born, Cinelerra-GG didn't have Align Mixer Feature and OpenMixers. You can see an old demo where You can understand how it works by "hand": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49EExsRsjlY And, I think, once You understand how it works it's not too bad. IgorBeg
Dear Pierre, On Monday, January 24, 2022 3:02:05 AM CET, Pierre autourduglobe via Cin wrote:
Mr. Konink, Phyllis Smith's comment was not a joke... It is in fact a rather sad mention.
Thanks for the clarification. I have missed the relationship between people in this project, and could not think of a scenario like this. I am sorry it my comment was received as incentive. It should not take a retirement to start on a great project. Love, time and commitment should suffice. Like with any relationship. -- Stefan
So this Feature request does not get lost in email, I have opened a BugTracker #603 to track it. Someone who is a User and a Programmer will eventually come along, want this feature too, and will implement it for all of us to use. On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 3:23 PM Stefan de Konink via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Recently I found a very nice introduction on linear editing for multi-cam. I finally understood how it should work in Cinelerra GG. But it is not intuitive, I would like to propose two things that could make multi-cam editing much more user friendly.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOMKP4Jgzw8>
1. As you can see from the video, multi-cam works by clicking on a Mixer. Completely counter intuitive towards anyone that works with a switcher (atem and likes) it adds video from the undecided point up to the current position when clicked on the mixer. This would be a feature request that I wonder why nobody asked for this: implement this in the opposite way. You click on a mixer A, then the timeline gets filled with that mixer (visible, or underwater). If you click on mixer B, the timeline is computed with the part 0 to timeline current position with Mixer A, and having Mixer B as start position.
2. Now you have set up your rough cut. What you would actually want is the ability to fine tune. I would like to have a drag handle functionality that would be able to modify the cut position. It should be able to move to left or right. The limits of this operation are bound by the source videos. One can move to the left beyond the left video, but only up to the point that the right video has data. The same goes for the move towards right. At this moment you can never get this right with trimming or extending, especially not when there is an audio track to match it below. Hence I think this function would benefit every editor. (feature-mouse.png)
-- Stefan-- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
participants (4)
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Igor BEGHETTO -
Phyllis Smith -
Pierre autourduglobe -
Stefan de Konink