Hi! In Blur plugin there is the "Alpha determines radius" option. I think it doesn't work but I can wrong. Can someone explain to me how it works, please? Thanks! IgorBeg
Anyone?? Good question -- I have been scratching my head over this most of the day. All the manual says is not helpful "Alpha determines radius -- use alpha to define the amount of blur to apply. (radius=gray value of alpha)". On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 1:51 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi! In Blur plugin there is the "Alpha determines radius" option. I think it doesn't work but I can wrong. Can someone explain to me how it works, please? Thanks!
IgorBeg -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Forgot to add. A test I did when I rendered with the blur plugin using a single frame selection/png, the resulting file was exactly the same whether "Alpha determines radius" was on or off. On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 1:51 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi! In Blur plugin there is the "Alpha determines radius" option. I think it doesn't work but I can wrong. Can someone explain to me how it works, please? Thanks!
IgorBeg -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021, Phyllis Smith via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Forgot to add. A test I did when I rendered with the blur plugin using a single frame selection/png, the resulting file was exactly the same whether "Alpha determines radius" was on or off.
but you tested with different amounts of transperency, like via fade curve on frame/image?
On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 1:51 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi! In Blur plugin there is the "Alpha determines radius" option. I think it doesn't work but I can wrong. Can someone explain to me how it works, please? Thanks!
IgorBeg -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
My test: I have tried to use the Blur plugin (with "Alpha determines radius") with a mask and with Blue Banana. The result is always the same activating or deactivating this option. I tried with the Alpha plugin and I found a (useless?) difference: with radius =0 it is the same between active and inactive option (image 1); with radius > 0, with active option the blur acts normally on the image but the Alpha plugin is completely deactivated (image 2). If the option is deactivated, the Alpha plugin continues to work and the Blur acts normally (image 3). In the CinCV manual you can't find this parameter: either it's original to CinHV or it's new to CinGG. I tried to look at the source code in Blur.C, finding references to "config.a_key" as opposed to just "config.a"; but I can't figure out how and when it intervenes.
Thanks to all of you (Phyllis, Andrew, Andrea) for the quick reply and your tests! I tried with a PNG (and JPG) image with alpha channel (a simply Text made in GIMP) on a top track and, in the bottom track, with a video but I don't see any good use. Do you have any idea why it was born? IgorBeg
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021, Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Thanks to all of you (Phyllis, Andrew, Andrea) for the quick reply and your tests! I tried with a PNG (and JPG) image with alpha channel (a simply Text made in GIMP) on a top track and, in the bottom track, with a video but I don't see any good use. Do you have any idea why it was born?
it seems to originate in Cin-hv? at least it was around in 2016 when cin-gg was just forked from 5.0... https://git.cinelerra-gg.org/git/?p=goodguy/history.git;a=blob;f=cinelerra-5... can anyone try Cin-HV 5/6/7 (may be in VM?) and see how this plugin work there?
IgorBeg -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021, Andrea paz <[email protected]> wrote:
can anyone try Cin-HV 5/6/7 (may be in VM?) and see how this plugin work there
I put Ubuntu 18 in VM to try the Blur plugin. I tried to install the cinelerra-HV binary but it gives me error:
error libpng12.so.0 not such file or directory.
there seems to be two CinHV versions on http://www.heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra.php 64 bit BINARY tested on Ubuntu-18 64 bit BINARY tested on Ubuntu-16 make sure you have right one.. and/or look for libpng12 in apt...
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021, Andrea paz <[email protected]> wrote:
can anyone try Cin-HV 5/6/7 (may be in VM?) and see how this plugin work there
I put Ubuntu 18 in VM to try the Blur plugin. I tried to install the cinelerra-HV binary but it gives me error:
error libpng12.so.0 not such file or directory.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1194386/how-to-correctly-install-libpng12-0-... on ubuntu 18 (lts?) you can just download and install older libpng, but on newer Ubuntu you need different package (someone even orovided PPA for this?)
on ubuntu 18 (lts?) you can just download and install older libpng
Thanks, I was stuck on atp not finding libpng12.... Now Cin-HV works and I can see that it has the Blur plugin with the "Alpha determines radius" option. But still I can't understand its use. Looking at the source code can you understand how it works? It would be nice to explain it in the manual, or remove it altogether.
Andrew wrote:
can anyone try Cin-HV 5/6/7 (may be in VM?) and see how this plugin work there?
Andrea wrote:
Now Cin-HV works and I can see that it has the Blur plugin with the "Alpha determines radius" option. But still I can't understand its use.
In my system (UbuntuStudio_16.04_64bit) there is Cinelerra-HV_7.1 and I tested Blur plugin as I did in Cinelerra-GG. It works like Cinelerra-GG and the "Alpha determines radius" seems to me useless; I speak from an User point of view, of course. Could it be that "Alpha determines radius" has to be used together with something else (plugin)? Thanks! IgorBeg
fire email at Adam, may be he remeber? On Thursday, December 23, 2021, Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Andrea wrote:
Maybe it works in an interval with keyframes? I wouldn't know how to test it...
Good idea but I don't think it works for keyframes. -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
OK, I finally got a case that shows it does something and here is how to do that (I can provide a video, if necessary). Step 1 - start Cinelarra and just wipe an area to drag the "Title" plugin to it and type in some worlds to see in Compositor. Step 2 - now drag the "Blur" plugin to that same area and bring up the menu; click the "Reset" button. Look in the Compositor to see what it looks like and then Check the "Alpha determines radius" box and you can clearly see a difference. On Thu, Dec 23, 2021 at 3:07 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Andrea wrote:
Maybe it works in an interval with keyframes? I wouldn't know how to test it...
Good idea but I don't think it works for keyframes. -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
That should be *"words" not "worlds"* in Step 1 -- it is too hard to type in worlds !! Step 1 - start Cinelarra and just wipe an area to drag the "Title" plugin
to it and type in some *worlds* to see in Compositor. ec 23, 2021 at 3:07 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin <[email protected]> wrote:
Andrea wrote:
Maybe it works in an interval with keyframes? I wouldn't know how to test it...
Good idea but I don't think it works for keyframes. -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Phyllis wrote:
OK, I finally got a case that shows it does something and here is how to do that (I can provide a video, if necessary). Step 1 - start Cinelarra and just wipe an area to drag the "Title" plugin to it and type in some worlds to see in Compositor. Step 2 - now drag the "Blur" plugin to that same area and bring up the menu; click the "Reset" button. Look in the Compositor to see what it looks like and then Check the "Alpha determines radius" box and you can clearly see a difference.
Thanks Phyllis for testing. I tried to replicate your steps but I don't see any substantial differences. Maybe it depends by the font and size used in the Title effect? If You have some time can you post a screencast, please? Andrew wrote:
fire email at Adam, may be he remeber? I hope He can reply. Thanks!
IgorBeg
https://streamable.com/0fonz0 for the demo. Other notes: Works in HV 4.6.1 with similar, but not exact results, so that is where it came from (CinGG was based on the original HV and CV mods were added later). Not in CV code that I checked. Maybe the manual can be updated about this later if it is understood better. On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 1:22 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Phyllis wrote:
OK, I finally got a case that shows it does something and here is how to do that (I can provide a video, if necessary). Step 1 - start Cinelarra and just wipe an area to drag the "Title" plugin to it and type in some worlds to see in Compositor. Step 2 - now drag the "Blur" plugin to that same area and bring up the menu; click the "Reset" button. Look in the Compositor to see what it looks like and then Check the "Alpha determines radius" box and you can clearly see a difference.
Thanks Phyllis for testing. I tried to replicate your steps but I don't see any substantial differences. Maybe it depends by the font and size used in the Title effect? If You have some time can you post a screencast, please?
Andrew wrote:
fire email at Adam, may be he remeber? I hope He can reply. Thanks!
IgorBeg
-- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Thanks Phyllis for the demo! It works like the tests I did on a PNG with alpha channel but I think the result is more a bug. Maybe in CinelerraCV it was deleted for that?
Works in HV 4.6.1 with similar, but not exact results, so that is where it came from (CinGG was based on the original HV and CV mods were added later). Not in CV code that I checked.
On Friday, December 24, 2021, Phyllis Smith via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
https://streamable.com/0fonz0 for the demo.
Other notes: Works in HV 4.6.1 with similar, but not exact results, so that is where it came from (CinGG was based on the original HV and CV mods were added later). Not in CV code that I checked. Maybe the manual can be updated about this later if it is understood better.
is there way to make alpha gradient? from name of option it seems it must blur more (by radius) with more transparent areas... may be our BT 559 (remaining issue) plays role in this strange observed behavior...
On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 1:22 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Phyllis wrote:
OK, I finally got a case that shows it does something and here is how to do that (I can provide a video, if necessary). Step 1 - start Cinelarra and just wipe an area to drag the "Title" plugin to it and type in some worlds to see in Compositor. Step 2 - now drag the "Blur" plugin to that same area and bring up the menu; click the "Reset" button. Look in the Compositor to see what it looks like and then Check the "Alpha determines radius" box and you can clearly see a difference.
Thanks Phyllis for testing. I tried to replicate your steps but I don't see any substantial differences. Maybe it depends by the font and size used in the Title effect? If You have some time can you post a screencast, please?
Andrew wrote:
fire email at Adam, may be he remeber? I hope He can reply. Thanks!
IgorBeg
-- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
I also think it is a bug. If in Phyllis' example we put a track underneath with, for example, a colored background, activating the "Alpha determines radius" option makes that track disappear in the Compositor leaving a black background. It is as if this option took the black of the first track (which is 100% transparency) and transformed it into the color black (0, 0, 0), losing the transparency data and hiding the underlying colored track. The same is achieved using a gradient. Maybe the best thing is to hide the option (without needing to remove it from the source code) so that it is not available.
On Sunday, December 26, 2021, Andrea paz <[email protected]> wrote:
I also think it is a bug. If in Phyllis' example we put a track underneath with, for example, a colored background, activating the "Alpha determines radius" option makes that track disappear in the Compositor leaving a black background. It is as if this option took the black of the first track (which is 100% transparency) and transformed it into the color black (0, 0, 0), losing the transparency data and hiding the underlying colored track. The same is achieved using a gradient.
Maybe the best thing is to hide the option (without needing to remove it from the source code) so that it is not available.
may be also put this case in bug database so we will remember about it...
Hiding it is probably the best idea. There were/are things in HV that did not work correctly and unless someone stumbled across them (like Igor just did) they would not have gotten fixed. On Sun, Dec 26, 2021 at 2:17 AM Andrea paz via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
I also think it is a bug. If in Phyllis' example we put a track underneath with, for example, a colored background, activating the "Alpha determines radius" option makes that track disappear in the Compositor leaving a black background. It is as if this option took the black of the first track (which is 100% transparency) and transformed it into the color black (0, 0, 0), losing the transparency data and hiding the underlying colored track. The same is achieved using a gradient.
Maybe the best thing is to hide the option (without needing to remove it from the source code) so that it is not available. -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
In case it is a bug, what do you think if we would improve the GUI? I have done three photomontages (a, b, c).
Igor, good idea. I like A the best and B the second best; for some reason I do not like C. So should I open a BT for the "alpha determines radius" or should it just be deleted since we have no idea what its purpose was? It does not seem like it was ever relevant. On Sun, Dec 26, 2021 at 10:00 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
In case it is a bug, what do you think if we would improve the GUI? I have done three photomontages (a, b, c).
-- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
I reported the problem on the CinCV mailing list; here is the address of the response I got: https://www.freelists.org/post/cinelerra-cv-team/Blur-plugin,1 (Igor_VLD has total knowledge of all Cinelerra branches...)
Thanks Andrea_paz and Igor_VLD! For all users who have tested this function, it seems not to work. I think that only those who developed it know if it works and exactly how it works. I have done different tests. Some of these... I tested it using PNG with alpha on another track and Overlay plugin. Sharing this effect with the video track where there is a video and the Blur plugin. Negative result. I tested it using Overlay in Patchbay but I don't see any good result. I think that a function that doesn't work just creates confusion for an user and I agree with Andrea_paz that the best thing is to hide the option in the window plugin (and, eventually, add a short comment) without deleting the code that executes it. If Adam (developer), or others, can give us information to understand how it works, or fix it, we would be happy, and if so, restore this option. This is JUST my opinion. Andrea wrote:
I reported the problem on the CinCV mailing list; here is the address of the response I got: https://www.freelists.org/post/cinelerra-cv-team/Blur-plugin,1
(Igor_VLD has total knowledge of all Cinelerra branches...)
I did open a BT #599 ( https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/bugtracker/view.php?id=599) for this so that if it is commented out, it can be addressed later when someone comes along who might be interested in it (a GIMP guru maybe). On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 1:55 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Thanks Andrea_paz and Igor_VLD! For all users who have tested this function, it seems not to work. I think that only those who developed it know if it works and exactly how it works.
I have done different tests. Some of these... I tested it using PNG with alpha on another track and Overlay plugin. Sharing this effect with the video track where there is a video and the Blur plugin. Negative result. I tested it using Overlay in Patchbay but I don't see any good result.
I think that a function that doesn't work just creates confusion for an user and I agree with Andrea_paz that the best thing is to hide the option in the window plugin (and, eventually, add a short comment) without deleting the code that executes it. If Adam (developer), or others, can give us information to understand how it works, or fix it, we would be happy, and if so, restore this option. This is JUST my opinion.
Andrea wrote:
I reported the problem on the CinCV mailing list; here is the address of the response I got: https://www.freelists.org/post/cinelerra-cv-team/Blur-plugin,1
(Igor_VLD has total knowledge of all Cinelerra branches...) -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Good! Thanks Phyllis! Il 28/12/2021 15:37, Phyllis Smith via Cin ha scritto:
I did open a BT #599 (https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/bugtracker/view.php?id=599) for this so that if it is commented out, it can be addressed later when someone comes along who might be interested in it (a GIMP guru maybe).
GIT checkin with Blur plugin commented out "Alpha determines radius" and improved looks without the difficult dial. Also, added comment in ffv1.mkv in how to change version number. On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 7:37 AM Phyllis Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
I did open a BT #599 ( https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/bugtracker/view.php?id=599) for this so that if it is commented out, it can be addressed later when someone comes along who might be interested in it (a GIMP guru maybe).
On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 1:55 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Thanks Andrea_paz and Igor_VLD! For all users who have tested this function, it seems not to work. I think that only those who developed it know if it works and exactly how it works.
I have done different tests. Some of these... I tested it using PNG with alpha on another track and Overlay plugin. Sharing this effect with the video track where there is a video and the Blur plugin. Negative result. I tested it using Overlay in Patchbay but I don't see any good result.
I think that a function that doesn't work just creates confusion for an user and I agree with Andrea_paz that the best thing is to hide the option in the window plugin (and, eventually, add a short comment) without deleting the code that executes it. If Adam (developer), or others, can give us information to understand how it works, or fix it, we would be happy, and if so, restore this option. This is JUST my opinion.
Andrea wrote:
I reported the problem on the CinCV mailing list; here is the address of the response I got: https://www.freelists.org/post/cinelerra-cv-team/Blur-plugin,1
(Igor_VLD has total knowledge of all Cinelerra branches...) -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
participants (4)
-
Andrea paz -
Andrew Randrianasulu -
Igor BEGHETTO -
Phyllis Smith