On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 3:51:24 PM CEST, Andrew Randrianasulu wrote:

sorry, no idea apart from saving immovable parts as separate edl ....

Which defeats the idea of putting everything on a single timeline ;) -- Stefan

Op 10/4/23 om 03:22 schreef Phyllis Smith:

I got nothing.  But why not put that single asset on a track by itself in the spot you will finally want it, disarm that track so nothing affects it, and when you are finally done with your editing, stick it in the main track where you want it.  (This is probably a naive approach from me.)

In the 'best case' approach where there is more audio than video, the 'master' audio should always in view. I don't know how much vertical space you have on your monitor, but I get 3 tracks per individual video segment, that free space saturates very quickly. Yes, one could always insert three tracks in between and do the work on the lowest five. Then the problem appears: how to project everything on the top tracks, once you are done, otherwise that part becomes unmanageable. In concert with this effort I also want to push for the option to scale the audio waveforms independently, instead of globally. -- Stefan

ср, 4 окт. 2023 г., 10:51 Stefan de Konink <[email protected]>:

Op 10/4/23 om 03:22 schreef Phyllis Smith:

...

I got nothing. But why not put that single asset on a track by itself in the spot you will finally want it, disarm that track so nothing affects it, and when you are finally done with your editing, stick it in the main track where you want it. (This is probably a naive approach from me.)

In the 'best case' approach where there is more audio than video, the 'master' audio should always in view. I don't know how much vertical space you have on your monitor, but I get 3 tracks per individual video segment, that free space saturates very quickly. Yes, one could always insert three tracks in between and do the work on the lowest five. Then the problem appears: how to project everything on the top tracks, once you are done, otherwise that part becomes unmanageable.

In concert with this effort I also want to push for the option to scale the audio waveforms independently, instead of globally.

Well, "data track height" can be changed individually down to 8 pixels .... look for little "two triangles" are at the most right end of patchbay when track options are expanded ....

-- Stefan

ср, 4 окт. 2023 г., 12:56 Stefan de Konink <[email protected]>:

On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 11:51:09 AM CEST, Andrew Randrianasulu wrote:

...

Well, "data track height" can be changed individually down to 8 pixels .... look for little "two triangles" are at the most right end of patchbay when track options are expanded ....

I guess my reply should be: I don't want to do this work manually at all ;)

you can also try to change view-> assets/view-> titles (0/1 on keyboard?) to get temporarily more vertical space. I sadly have no simple idea how to implement immovable group .... because everything else on timeline must respect this.

-- Stefan

ср, 4 окт. 2023 г., 13:24 Stefan de Konink <[email protected]>:

On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 12:19:07 PM CEST, Andrew Randrianasulu wrote:

...

I sadly have no simple idea how to implement immovable group .... because everything else on timeline must respect this.

There are other things like labels which also have rather "unpredictable" behavior. It is not that it is not predictable, it is just not intuitive. And my guess is, that is all is caused by how Cinelerra handles this global timeline. When I paste something as b-roll, I don't want my labels, to move. But once I change my master-track it should follow that specific asset (and not just the time).

well, at least on 1v/2a timeline when I was testing for group move hang labels set inside highlighted region were following edits if corresponding "labels follows edits" toggle was set, AND I moved things in d&drop mode by mouse ....

-- Stefan

Op 10/4/23 om 19:36 schreef Phyllis Smith:

I totally "get it" -- basically you want it to work like you expect it to work.  Unfortunately, so did the original author! as does everyone else!

I wanted to ignore this email because I would agree, that if it would work for the original author, then it fits his or her needs. Today I am editing again and from usability perspective try this one; You have 4 tracks, VAAA. Add some media so you are sure you can see what happens. In front of it you create 30s of silence. Go to a new asset. View it. Set in-out points, and copy (not to clip). Now go to the front of the timeline and paste. Notice that VAA is moving, but the last audio track does not, hence VAAA directly becomes out of sync. This also happens when you would drag and 'snap' a clip to the beginning of the time line. But it does not when you drag a clip in between on silence space. To me the above behavior shows: 1. I am either unaware of the option not to have the assets on the timeline move (see subject on the email) 2. Or we must agree that this moving behavior for a NON-linear editor is far from be desired. I would even say, like the labels locking moving, we must have an option that would always just overwrites. It is open source, everyone can fix it, bla bla. Without a "developer manual" every capable C/C++ developer would first have to dig in very deep in order to comprehend how the UX actually works, let alone how to change it. -- Stefan

Op 10/8/23 om 13:22 schreef Andrew Randrianasulu:

I guess you mean 1 video + stereo track belonging to it + separate mono track? Or just real 2.1 audio?

Yes to the first. V + A + A from camera A from audio recorder (actually stereo, but I only take one channel) I know, I complain about a workflow that would benefit from several enhancement, but in essence is currently just more prone to these issues. -- Stefan

On Sun, 8 Oct 2023, Andrew Randrianasulu via Cin wrote:

Then I selected region of timeline with mouse and pressed "c"

Then I put my cursor where I wanted my copy to appear in silenced region. Tried 'v'. Nothing happened.

Then I set only in point and repeated 'v' action. All 3 tracks inserted, pushing original to the right

So, may be try to set single "in" point where you want to paste on timeline?

How CGG's implementation of copypasting will take into account in/out points, is not always easy to predict. As I understand, when something has been copied 'c', and then is being pasted somewhere 'v', while some in/out points are still set (independent on the current cursor position), then the copied content is pasted between the in/out points replacing their former content. If one had copied that region, set cursor to the new position and wanted to copy there, but forgot to change in/out, the copied contents is pasted between in/out replacing itself, making an illusion as if nothing happened. Therefore the user before pasting has to check carefully where his in/out points reside (this contents will be replaced), or, most safely, remove both in/out points so that pasting occured at the current cursor position. I am not sure how region selection is taken into account. Perhaps, similarly, while in/out points take precedence. _______________________________________________________________________________ Georgy Salnikov NMR Group Novosibirsk Institute of Organic Chemistry Lavrentjeva, 9, 630090 Novosibirsk, Russia Phone +7-383-3307864 Email [email protected] _______________________________________________________________________________