Audio Visual Application plain Format (BD-R/RE AV) for home video on Blu-ray discs
Back in 2016/2017 I rendered a 1080i hdv.m2t clip to BDAV, burned it on a standard BD-RE disc and then could playback it as a 16:9 Blu-ray video in a Samsung Ultra Blu-ray player. https://lists.cinelerra-cv.org/pipermail/cinelerra/2017q1/005830.html What I wonder is if also the following features are possible in Cin-GG (bdwrite and/or tsMuxer, ffmpeg tools): According to sources below: 1) The BD-R/RE AV specification accept video captured by an HDV camcorder. HDV streams are already MPEG-2 format so they do not have to be re-encoded to create the partial transport stream and can be directly transferred for recording. 2) In addition to digital broadcasts, BD-R/RE AV incorporates a Self-Encoded Stream Format (SESF) for recording SD analog broadcasts and other material. With SESF, the source video signal is encoded in MPEG-2 (MP@ML) format and multiplexed with its audio (MPEG-1 Layer 2, LPCM, Dolby Digital AC-3), teletex information (PAL option only) and Tip data (video aspect ratio, copy control, coding, etc.) to again create a partial transport stream (see tables). Recording of analog SDTV broadcast and direct DV input in BDAV, is described in the BD-RE_Part3_V2.1_WhitePaper July 2010, page 1, 2, 10-15 http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Assets/Downloadablefile/BD-RE_Part3_V2.1_WhitePap... About BDAV from various background sources: ====================================== BDAV refers to either the transport stream format used for all Blu-ray content, or the plain format intended for home video with no interactivity. BDAV could mean Blu-ray Disc Audio-Visual MPEG-2 Transport Stream or .m2ts The BDAV Container format is based on the standard MPEG-2 TS (transport stream) Both Blu-ray and HD DVD use transport streams, compared to DVD's program streams, to store video, audio, and other streams. This allows multiple video programs to be stored in the same file so they can be played back simultaneously, giving a Picture In Picture effect. The BDAV container with filename extension .MTS or .m2ts is also used in AVCHD format, which is a high definition digital video camera recorder format. AVCHD is a simpler form of the Blu-ray Disc standard with just one video encoding algorithm and two audio encodings. The BDAV container format used on AVCHD equipment is more restricted and can contain only H.264/MPEG-4 AVC video compression and Dolby Digital (AC-3) audio compression or uncompressed LPCM audio. The BDAV container format used on Blu-ray Discs can contain one of the three mandatory supported video compression formats H.262/MPEG-2 Part 2, H.264/MPEG-4 AVC or SMPTE VC-1[15] and audio compression formats such as Dolby Digital, DTS or uncompressed Linear PCM. Optionally supported audio formats are Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD. The BDAV container is also used in the BDAV (Blu-ray Disc Audio/Visual) disc format, the consumer-oriented alternative to the BDMV discs. BDAV disc format is used on BD-RE and BD-R discs for audio/video recording The BDAV disc format is the consumer oriented alternative to the BDMV discs made by professional Authoring houses for movie releases. BDAV - a plain' format that is intended for home video with no interactivity. A BDAV disc is basically video on a disc. Content on a BDAV disc is playable on a Blu-ray Disc player from beginning to end. . BDAV was designed in part to provide compatibility between AVCHD digital camcorders and Blu-ray players. It's comparable to the DVD formats used for standalone DVD recorders, DVD+VR and DVD-VR because it's designed primarily for authoring simple Video/Audio content with no menus. What is the BD-R/RE AV format? ========================== http://www.hughsnews.ca/faqs/authoritative-blu-ray-disc-bd-faq/4-physical-lo... BD-R/RE Audio Visual (BD-R/RE AV) is an application format designed to record and play back full quality high (HD) and standard (SD) definition digital television broadcasts on BD-R (recordable) and BD-RE (rewritable). It can also be used to capture SD material from analog sources and direct transfers from HDV camcorders. Typically, up to 2 hours of HD material can be stored on a 25 GB single-layer (SL) disc or 12 hours of VHS-quality SD material (double that on dual-layer discs). A basic framework for navigating the recorded material as well as destructive and non-destructive editing is also provided. Occasionally, BD-R/RE AV is incorrectly identified as BD-AV or BDAV. In addition to digital broadcasts, BD-R/RE AV incorporates a Self-Encoded Stream Format (SESF) for recording SD analog broadcasts and other material. With SESF, the source video signal is encoded in MPEG-2 (MP@ML) format and multiplexed with its audio (MPEG-1 Layer 2, LPCM, Dolby Digital AC-3), teletex information (PAL option only) and Tip data (video aspect ratio, copy control, coding, etc.) to again create a partial transport stream (see tables). BD-R/RE AV also accepts material captured by an HDV camcorder. HDV streams are already MPEG-2 format so they do not have to be re-encoded to create the partial transport stream and can be directly transferred for recording by using a standard IEEE 1394 (FireWire/i.LINK) interface. BD-R/RE AV employs a two layer (Clip and PlayList) organizational structure to manage captured audio and video. The Clip Layer is concealed from the user and contains the partial transport streams (stored as clip AV stream files) as well as an equal number of clip information files, each consisting of descriptive details (type, sequence, program and timing) directly corresponding to each stream. The combination of each AV stream and associated information file is called a clip. The Playlist Layer allows the user to view, edit and stitch together clips through a system of playlists (stored as playlist files). A playlist can be either real or virtual and contains one or more playitems, each consisting of a set of start and end pointers to define a range of playback time within a clip. When each clip is initially recorded a matching real playlist (containing a playitem delimiting the clip’s entire playback time) is automatically generated. Real playlists can also be divided or combined by the user and deleting an entire real playlist or segment will erase the associated clip or clip portion from the disc. In contrast, a virtual playlist is always created by the user and contains playitems that point to segments of real playlists. Thus, changes made to a virtual playlist do not affect the original clips so multiple real playlists can be segmented and grouped in any order to form continuous playback sequences. Seamless connection is possible by creating and referencing an optional bridge clip inserted at the edit point between two clips. Virtual playlists also enable audio dubbing to add sound to a clip after it has been recorded. Here, a playitem points to the real playlist of one clip (main path) and a subplayitem to the real playlist of a second clip (sub path). Video from the main path can then be played simultaneously with audio from the sub path. Other BD-R/RE AV features include thumbnails (display images representing the disc and playlists), marks (bookmarks for jumping to specific clip locations, resuming from a location after stopping playback, etc.), naming (assigning titles to discs and playlists), write protection (to prevent modifying or deleting playlists), password protection (PIN required to initiate playback) and others. -------------- Terje J. H
В сообщении от Thursday 19 November 2020 19:11:49 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin написал(а):
Back in 2016/2017 I rendered a 1080i hdv.m2t clip to BDAV, burned it on a standard BD-RE disc and then could playback it as a 16:9 Blu-ray video in a Samsung Ultra Blu-ray player. https://lists.cinelerra-cv.org/pipermail/cinelerra/2017q1/005830.html
What I wonder is if also the following features are possible in Cin-GG (bdwrite and/or tsMuxer, ffmpeg tools):
I think you better ask at tsmuxer github/forum: There is plenty of bits to get wrong ..... https://github.com/justdan96/tsMuxer https://github.com/justdan96/tsMuxer Note: in this thread DV is Dolby Vision, not DV as dvvideo!
-------------- Terje J. H
Den 19.11.2020 18:50, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu:
В сообщении от Thursday 19 November 2020 19:11:49 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin написал(а):
Back in 2016/2017 I rendered a 1080i hdv.m2t clip to BDAV, burned it on a standard BD-RE disc and then could playback it as a 16:9 Blu-ray video in a Samsung Ultra Blu-ray player. https://lists.cinelerra-cv.org/pipermail/cinelerra/2017q1/005830.html
bd_20161216-153642 ├── bd.m2ts ├── bd.sh ├── bd.udfs ├── bd.xml └── udfs Anybody knows if "BDAV" format listed below refers to BDAV disc format (vs BDMV) or to the m2ts transport stream format? General ID : 1 (0x1) Complete name : bd_20161216-153642/bd.m2ts Format : BDAV Format/Info : Blu-ray Video File size : 183 MiB Duration : 2 min 53 s Overall bit rate mode : Variable Overall bit rate : 8 857 kb/s Video ID : 4113 (0x1011) Menu ID : 1 (0x1) Format : AVC Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec Format profile : Baseline@L3 Format settings : 1 Ref Frames Format settings, CABAC : No Format settings, Reference frames : 1 frame Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=25 Codec ID : 27 Duration : 2 min 53 s Bit rate : 8 000 kb/s Width : 1 920 pixels Height : 1 080 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.161 Stream size : 171 MiB (93%) Writing library : x264 core 148
What I wonder is if also the following features are possible in Cin-GG (bdwrite and/or tsMuxer, ffmpeg tools):
I think you better ask at tsmuxer github/forum: There is plenty of bits to get wrong .....
https://github.com/justdan96/tsMuxer https://github.com/justdan96/tsMuxer
Yes, possibly better. I will think about it.
Note: in this thread DV is Dolby Vision, not DV as dvvideo!
Dolby Vision isn't mentioned in the specification? I verified that my own DV25 file also has "Overall bit rate of 28.8 Mb/s. Here are the most DV mentioned lines from the Whitepaper: * Direct recording of DV contents from the DV terminal of the camcorder with no picture deterioration (option) * Taking advantage of the BD-RE drive’s high user transfer rate (36Mbps), the BD-RE Application Format provides an optional functionality of recording DV streams (28.8Mbps) to BD-RE disc via the i.LINK. * Direct Recording of DV Input. The recording format for the DV stream conforms to the DVCR digital interface standard (IEC 61883-2) (Fig. 3.1.4.2.1). The DV stream received through i.LINK is not re-encoded but recorded directly to disc, with aligning the beginning of the DV stream with the logical sector boundary, as shown in Fig. 3.1.4.2.2(a). * Figure 3.1.4.2.1: Data structure of DV stream (compliant with digital interface standard for DVCR)(525 / 60) (626 / 50) * Fig. 3.1.4.2.3 shows the directory and file structures. DV stream files are stored in the /BDAV/STREAM directory as are TS files. DV stream files have the extension “dvsd” and are accordingly distinguished from TS files. * Since the video compression method adopted by the DV format is intraframe coding, each frame in the DV stream has a fixed number of bytes (525/60:120,000byte, 625/50:144,000byte). * DV stream has a comparatively high transfer rate of 28.8Mbps, * As previously described, the BD-RE Application Format adopts MPEG2 and DV formats as its video recording format (recording codec). When MPEG2 is used for recording, each frame image of the content is coded into either of three types—I-picture, P-picture, or B-picture—and compressed and recorded. -------------- Terje J. H
Den 19.11.2020 18:50, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu:
В сообщении от Thursday 19 November 2020 19:11:49 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin написал(а):
Back in 2016/2017 I rendered a 1080i hdv.m2t clip to BDAV, burned it on a standard BD-RE disc and then could playback it as a 16:9 Blu-ray video in a Samsung Ultra Blu-ray player. https://lists.cinelerra-cv.org/pipermail/cinelerra/2017q1/005830.html
What I wonder is if also the following features are possible in Cin-GG (bdwrite and/or tsMuxer, ffmpeg tools): I think you better ask at tsmuxer github/forum: There is plenty of bits to get wrong .....
https://github.com/justdan96/tsMuxer https://github.com/justdan96/tsMuxer
Note: in this thread DV is Dolby Vision, not DV as dvvideo!
I think I misunderstood this a bit. "This thread" refered to tsMuxer forum (?)
-------------- Terje J. H
В сообщении от Friday 20 November 2020 01:07:14 Terje J. Hanssen написал(а):
Den 19.11.2020 18:50, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu:
В сообщении от Thursday 19 November 2020 19:11:49 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin написал(а):
Back in 2016/2017 I rendered a 1080i hdv.m2t clip to BDAV, burned it on a standard BD-RE disc and then could playback it as a 16:9 Blu-ray video in a Samsung Ultra Blu-ray player. https://lists.cinelerra-cv.org/pipermail/cinelerra/2017q1/005830.html
What I wonder is if also the following features are possible in Cin-GG (bdwrite and/or tsMuxer, ffmpeg tools): I think you better ask at tsmuxer github/forum: There is plenty of bits to get wrong .....
https://github.com/justdan96/tsMuxer https://github.com/justdan96/tsMuxer
Note: in this thread DV is Dolby Vision, not DV as dvvideo!
I think I misunderstood this a bit. "This thread" refered to tsMuxer forum (?)
Yes, I mean forum (found it while looking forr answers to your questions some time ago .. and was confused initially) I think you are right about DV (dvvideo) on blu-ray as mentioned in standard, but how many players implement this is open question .....
-------------- Terje J. H
Den 20.11.2020 00:31, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu:
В сообщении от Friday 20 November 2020 01:07:14 Terje J. Hanssen написал(а):
Den 19.11.2020 18:50, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu:
В сообщении от Thursday 19 November 2020 19:11:49 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin написал(а):
Back in 2016/2017 I rendered a 1080i hdv.m2t clip to BDAV, burned it on a standard BD-RE disc and then could playback it as a 16:9 Blu-ray video in a Samsung Ultra Blu-ray player. https://lists.cinelerra-cv.org/pipermail/cinelerra/2017q1/005830.html
What I wonder is if also the following features are possible in Cin-GG (bdwrite and/or tsMuxer, ffmpeg tools): ..............skip I think you are right about DV (dvvideo) on blu-ray as mentioned in standard, but how many players implement this is open question .....
Yes, I've also thougt about this.
CyberLink says "BDAV is a video recording format that is compatible with all Blu-ray Disc players" (?) At least it seems Sony and Pioneer Blu-ray players have support for BDAV discs beside BDMV. Sony says simply copying the movie file on to a disc using a computer is not sufficient for playback. You have to create a DMV, BDAV or BDMV format disc using a disc creation software. I thought plain BDAV discs could be fine to preserve original HD/HDV clips and optional SD DV video without need to transcode it, and for playback this format on HDTV or PC.. For this purpose, simple, fast collecting clips, with clip info but without menus, would be just fine, comparable with BD-R/RE recorders or even old Video Tape recorder/player. The problem is I haven't found any BDAV structure to download and test if i.e Samsung Blu-ray players support it. Does indeed the current CGG bdwriter use BDAV disc structure, but needs to render? If so, it lacks the option to get hdv and dv video files without transcrode onto the BDAV discs structure? I don't know it, but it seems i.e Premiere Pro Online has m2ts native (BDAV, NTSC/PAL) imprt support, and can create BDAV formats using TMPGEnc Movie Plug-in AVC https://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/tppm4/00150.html Terje J. H
Den 20.11.2020 15:47, skrev Terje J. Hanssen:
Den 20.11.2020 00:31, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu:
В сообщении от Friday 20 November 2020 01:07:14 Terje J. Hanssen написал(а):
Den 19.11.2020 18:50, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu:
В сообщении от Thursday 19 November 2020 19:11:49 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin написал(а):
Back in 2016/2017 I rendered a 1080i hdv.m2t clip to BDAV, burned it on a standard BD-RE disc and then could playback it as a 16:9 Blu-ray video in a Samsung Ultra Blu-ray player. https://lists.cinelerra-cv.org/pipermail/cinelerra/2017q1/005830.html
What I wonder is if also the following features are possible in Cin-GG (bdwrite and/or tsMuxer, ffmpeg tools): ..............skip I think you are right about DV (dvvideo) on blu-ray as mentioned in standard, but how many players implement this is open question .....
Yes, I've also thougt about this.
CyberLink says "BDAV is a video recording format that is compatible with all Blu-ray Disc players" (?) At least it seems Sony and Pioneer Blu-ray players have support for BDAV discs beside BDMV.
Sony says simply copying the movie file on to a disc using a computer is not sufficient for playback. You have to create a DMV, BDAV or BDMV format disc using a disc creation software.
I thought plain BDAV discs could be fine to preserve original HD/HDV clips and optional SD DV video without need to transcode it, and for playback this format on HDTV or PC.. For this purpose, simple, fast collecting clips, with clip info but without menus, would be just fine, comparable with BD-R/RE recorders or even old Video Tape recorder/player.
The problem is I haven't found any BDAV structure to download and test if i.e Samsung Blu-ray players support it. Does indeed the current CGG bdwriter use BDAV disc structure, but needs to render? If so, it lacks the option to get hdv and dv video files without transcrode onto the BDAV discs structure?
I don't know it, but it seems i.e Premiere Pro Online has m2ts native (BDAV, NTSC/PAL) imprt support, and can create BDAV formats using TMPGEnc Movie Plug-in AVC https://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/tppm4/00150.html
Terje J. H
I have installed * tsMuxeRGUI v. 2.6.16.dev https://elatom.com/software/tsmuxergui-software-for-ts-muxing-with-mpeg-hevc... * k3b v. 20.04.2 https://www.debugpoint.com/2018/08/burn-blu-ray-disks-ubuntu-linux-k3b/ Giving up the attempt to put SD DV onto a BDAV disc structure, possibly "native" HDV video source is still manageable with available Linux tools? The procedure outlined in an old 2008 forum post was: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?s=21ca2761838f76bb701fa63a64ae28a8&p=112... I just figured that with the following easy steps you can let the PS3 play _native_ PAL HDV 25fps 1080i 1440x1080 @ 50Hz * 1. Demux the MPEG-2 video from the original HDV capture file * 2. Convert the MPEG audio to an AC3 audio file * 3. Mux both video+audio files with tsMuxeR to a Blu-ray File Structure * 4. Burn the Blu-ray File Structure to a DVD5 or DVD9 using the UDF 2.50 format. Another thread using tsMuxeR, Nero and other tools on Windows: Basic Blu-Ray Authoring with HDV source https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/284836-Basic-Guide-for-HDV-to-Blu-Ray#po... HDV to Blu-ray: why is it recompressing? https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/hdv-to-blu-ray-why-is-it-rec... Terje J. H
participants (2)
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Andrew Randrianasulu -
Terje J. Hanssen