Test alpha channel and reroute plugin (from Igor Vladimirsky's blog)
I open a new post to better recall the subject; the discussion in the post "CinGG's Youtube channel" is off topic. I tried to repeat Igor Valdimirsky's tutorial; maybe I did something wrong but my result is not good. Already with the default overlay (Normal) the result is not exactly the same as in the tutorial. For example, the outline of the letters is all white while in the tutorial there are plays of light and shadows that make it three-dimensional. But the worst comes when I set the center track to "Multiply": a completely wrong color comes out! See video: https://streamable.com/a7viox One difference is that I used a video source (h264, mov) and not a still image as in the tutorial, but I don't think it makes any difference.
пн, 26 сент. 2022 г., 16:30 Andrea paz via Cin <[email protected]>:
I open a new post to better recall the subject; the discussion in the post "CinGG's Youtube channel" is off topic. I tried to repeat Igor Valdimirsky's tutorial; maybe I did something wrong but my result is not good. Already with the default overlay (Normal) the result is not exactly the same as in the tutorial. For example, the outline of the letters is all white while in the tutorial there are plays of light and shadows that make it three-dimensional. But the worst comes when I set the center track to "Multiply": a completely wrong color comes out!
Thanks for testing! be sure that for this test you use rgba-8 or rgba-float project. But I have growing suspection we really do some calculations differently, may be in more widespread/standard way but not like original Cin worked. Can you try CinCV or CinHV too? See video:
One difference is that I used a video source (h264, mov) and not a still image as in the tutorial, but I don't think it makes any difference. -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Yes, I used YUVA-8bit. Using RGBA-FLOAT: I had set Multiply and Max in the wrong tracks. Correcting the error, the result is still wrong. See image. I have tried with old projects using Multiply and the result is correct with RGBA and wrong with YUVA (no Reroute or other). Same behavior with appimage. To install CinCV I would have to put gcc9 instead of the current gcc 12; I am not very good at handling dual libraries, especially for important things like gcc.
пн, 26 сент. 2022 г., 17:49 Andrea paz <[email protected]>:
Yes, I used YUVA-8bit. Using RGBA-FLOAT: I had set Multiply and Max in the wrong tracks. Correcting the error, the result is still wrong. See image.
I have tried with old projects using Multiply and the result is correct with RGBA and wrong with YUVA (no Reroute or other). Same behavior with appimage.
To install CinCV I would have to put gcc9 instead of the current gcc 12; I am not very good at handling dual libraries, especially for important things like gcc.
can you post cincv compile errors? May be we can figure out cflag or patch to fix them ....
вт, 27 сент. 2022 г., 17:41 Andrea paz <[email protected]>:
can you post cincv compile errors? May be we can figure out cflag or patch to fix them ....
Sorry, I did not build. I tried to install the Arch package and when it required many dependencies I gave up on the installation. I don't really want to put CinCV...
quite contriving way to install it - do it in chroot (from base Arch install) ) or may be from livecd in qemu .... I use my own compilation of CinCV from mid-2017, so far it works, even if only with some media files .... I tried to find old cinelive distro but no luck .... source/scripts still on github but building whole os just for one program ...... not optimal. I'll update this thread if I find some way to run CinCV on new systems ..... may be I left livecd somewhere at yandex .... https://disk.yandex.ru/d/HYZ9rwcykB3Fzg if you do not mind 700 mb of traffic! login/pass should be guest/guest then startx ..... then alt-f2 -> konsole and there should be old cinelerra-cv ... (i mean I did this disk mostly for my old machine without dvd, I do not have this machine anymore .... so spin it in qemu please.
If your machine is fast enough, you could try setting up a VirtualBox VM with an older non-rolling distro. The latest CV release was mid 2015 I think. I never built it. MatN On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 16:41:15 +0200 Andrea paz via Cin <[email protected]> wrote:
can you post cincv compile errors? May be we can figure out cflag or patch to fix them ....
Sorry, I did not build. I tried to install the Arch package and when it required many dependencies I gave up on the installation. I don't really want to put CinCV...
You can perform this convoluted method OR "just use a simple Outline font" which can be freely downloaded. Already with the default overlay
(Normal) the result is not exactly the same as in the tutorial. For example, the outline of the letters is all white while in the tutorial there are plays of light and shadows that make it three-dimensional. But the worst comes when I set the center track to "Multiply": a completely wrong color comes out!
But I have growing suspection we really do some calculations differently, may be in more widespread/standard way but not like original Cin worked.
Agreed. CinGG does some things differently as well as calculations. That does not make them wrong.
пн, 26 сент. 2022 г., 19:21 Phyllis Smith <[email protected]>:
You can perform this convoluted method OR "just use a simple Outline font" which can be freely downloaded.
Already with the default overlay
(Normal) the result is not exactly the same as in the tutorial. For example, the outline of the letters is all white while in the tutorial there are plays of light and shadows that make it three-dimensional. But the worst comes when I set the center track to "Multiply": a completely wrong color comes out!
But I have growing suspection we really do some calculations differently, may be in more widespread/standard way but not like original Cin worked.
Agreed. CinGG does some things differently as well as calculations. That does not make them wrong.
I think we can make special submenu in overlay modes for cinCV compatible modes if we figure how to express them new way ....
I did some tests here (in RGBA-8bit) with Reroute, and Alpha Channel. It seems to work correctly. It is time consuming, for me, to post here the screencast/screenshot of the tests, but if you think it can be useful tell me. It may be (surely) that Cin-CV and Cin-GG work slightly differently. I remember that, when you are using Title effect, the black colour is meant to be the alpha channel (more or less). It may be that not everything Cin-CV is able to do can be reproduced in Cin-GG,... and vice versa. IgorBeg Il 26/09/2022 18:20, Phyllis Smith via Cin ha scritto:
You can perform this convoluted method OR "just use a simple Outline font" which can be freely downloaded.
Already with the default overlay (Normal) the result is not exactly the same as in the tutorial. For example, the outline of the letters is all white while in the tutorial there are plays of light and shadows that make it three-dimensional. But the worst comes when I set the center track to "Multiply": a completely wrong color comes out!
But I have growing suspection we really do some calculations differently, may be in more widespread/standard way but not like original Cin worked.
Agreed. CinGG does some things differently as well as calculations. That does not make them wrong.
IgotBeghetto - your input makes us more sure that things are working as expected because you know how to work with the available options. And thanks for reaffirming that not everything will be the same. ...Phyllis On Sat, Oct 1, 2022 at 2:25 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
I did some tests here (in RGBA-8bit) with Reroute, and Alpha Channel. It seems to work correctly. It is time consuming, for me, to post here the screencast/screenshot of the tests, but if you think it can be useful tell me. It may be (surely) that Cin-CV and Cin-GG work slightly differently. I remember that, when you are using Title effect, the black colour is meant to be the alpha channel (more or less). It may be that not everything Cin-CV is able to do can be reproduced in Cin-GG,... and vice versa.
Here, only an example about Igor_ubuntu's Reroute and Alpha Channel, in Cinelerra-GG. This is not meant to be a competition but to show what Cinelerra-GG can do, referring to Igor_ubuntu's tutorial. The output, of course, can not be like in Cinelerra-CV. - Project Format: 1280x720 @24fps, RGBA-8bit - Cinelerra-GG version: CinGG_20220630 IgorBeg Il 02/10/2022 20:51, Phyllis Smith ha scritto:
IgotBeghetto - your input makes us more sure that things are working as expected because you know how to work with the available options. And thanks for reaffirming that not everything will be the same. ...Phyllis
On Sat, Oct 1, 2022 at 2:25 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I did some tests here (in RGBA-8bit) with Reroute, and Alpha Channel. It seems to work correctly. It is time consuming, for me, to post here the screencast/screenshot of the tests, but if you think it can be useful tell me. It may be (surely) that Cin-CV and Cin-GG work slightly differently. I remember that, when you are using Title effect, the black colour is meant to be the alpha channel (more or less). It may be that not everything Cin-CV is able to do can be reproduced in Cin-GG,... and vice versa.
IgorBeghetto -- that is a wonderful demonstration that it can be done in CinGG! I will have to really study how you did it by analyzing your jpg. It does look quite complicated but I want to see if I can successfully reproduce it myself. On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 6:23 AM Igor BEGHETTO <[email protected]> wrote:
Here, only an example about Igor_ubuntu's Reroute and Alpha Channel, in Cinelerra-GG. This is not meant to be a competition but to show what Cinelerra-GG can do, referring to Igor_ubuntu's tutorial. The output, of course, can not be like in Cinelerra-CV. - Project Format: 1280x720 @24fps, RGBA-8bit - Cinelerra-GG version: CinGG_20220630
IgorBeg
Il 02/10/2022 20:51, Phyllis Smith ha scritto:
IgotBeghetto - your input makes us more sure that things are working as expected because you know how to work with the available options. And thanks for reaffirming that not everything will be the same. ...Phyllis
On Sat, Oct 1, 2022 at 2:25 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
I did some tests here (in RGBA-8bit) with Reroute, and Alpha Channel. It seems to work correctly. It is time consuming, for me, to post here the screencast/screenshot of the tests, but if you think it can be useful tell me. It may be (surely) that Cin-CV and Cin-GG work slightly differently. I remember that, when you are using Title effect, the black colour is meant to be the alpha channel (more or less). It may be that not everything Cin-CV is able to do can be reproduced in Cin-GG,... and vice versa.
Phyllis, in my screenshot you can see each Plugin window open and in the top of these windows you should be able to read the effect type (Title of the Plugin) with its reference track; yes, it may be difficult to read them because they are grayed out. Remember, it works in RGBA Format Project but not in YUVA. Let me know if you need more information. Thanks. IgorBeg Il 04/10/2022 19:51, Phyllis Smith ha scritto:
IgorBeghetto -- that is a wonderful demonstration that it can be done in CinGG! I will have to really study how you did it by analyzing your jpg. It does look quite complicated but I want to see if I can successfully reproduce it myself.
IgorBeghetto: not sending my screenshot yet because I still have something wrong as it does not look correct. Will recheck tomorrow and hopefully will see what is different in mind than yours. I can see each of your plugins very well.
Phyllis, in my screenshot you can see each Plugin window open and in the top of these windows you should be able to read the effect type (Title of the Plugin) with its reference track; yes, it may be difficult to read them because they are grayed out. Remember, it works in RGBA Format Project but not in YUVA. Let me know if you need more information. Thanks.
IgorBeg
Il 04/10/2022 19:51, Phyllis Smith ha scritto:
IgorBeghetto -- that is a wonderful demonstration that it can be done in CinGG! I will have to really study how you did it by analyzing your jpg. It does look quite complicated but I want to see if I can successfully reproduce it myself.
-- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
IgorBeghetto, Attached is my incorrect duplication. I can not tell why it does not look like yours? On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 1:29 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Phyllis, in my screenshot you can see each Plugin window open and in the top of these windows you should be able to read the effect type (Title of the Plugin) with its reference track; yes, it may be difficult to read them because they are grayed out. Remember, it works in RGBA Format Project but not in YUVA. Let me know if you need more information. Thanks.
IgorBeg
Il 04/10/2022 19:51, Phyllis Smith ha scritto:
IgorBeghetto -- that is a wonderful demonstration that it can be done in CinGG! I will have to really study how you did it by analyzing your jpg. It does look quite complicated but I want to see if I can successfully reproduce it myself.
-- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Phyllis, really strange. At first glance it seems all correct. In Settings...->Format..., is "Color Model:" set to RGBA-8bit? I will look better. (My mistake is the value 0.0334 in the Patchbay on the V2 track, but it doesn't matter for the effect) IgorBeg Il 06/10/2022 20:29, Phyllis Smith ha scritto:
IgorBeghetto, Attached is my incorrect duplication. I can not tell why it does not look like yours?
Igor Beghetto, you do not have to waste your time checking my example -- it is just good enough that we know it can be done as you have proven. Anyday, yes, Color Model is set to RGBA-8 and the only reason I set the value to 0.0334 was to make sure I was not missing something. I was not real sure which V1 Blur was which, but I switched the 2 a couple of times to make sure I was not getting that wrong.
really strange. At first glance it seems all correct. In Settings...->Format..., is "Color Model:" set to RGBA-8bit? I will look better. (My mistake is the value 0.0334 in the Patchbay on the V2 track, but it doesn't matter for the effect) IgorBeg
Il 06/10/2022 20:29, Phyllis Smith ha scritto:
IgorBeghetto, Attached is my incorrect duplication. I can not tell why it does not look like yours?
Okay. Thanks Phyllis! If You want to open my Project I added here a compressed file. Because You may not have not the same font that I am using, in the timeline you will find another video track below "V1" track: "V1_Title2PNG" video track. It uses a PNG instead of the Title effect. In the Patchbay You must enable "Play track" on the "V1" track, if you have the font API_Phonetique(JJMG) installed, otherwise disable "Play track" on the "V1" and enable "V1_Title2PNG" video track. The project is saved with "V1_Title2PNG" disabled. For space reasons the video has been converted to a JPG frame. (Tested with CinGG-20220928-x86_64-older_distros.AppImage) IgorBeg Il 07/10/2022 18:47, Phyllis Smith ha scritto:
it is just good enough that we know it can be done as you have proven. Anyday, yes, Color Model is set to RGBA-8 and the only reason I set the value to 0.0334 was to make sure I was not missing something. I was not real sure which V1 Blur was which, but I switched the 2 a couple of times to make sure I was not getting that wrong.
OK, it looks like the font I used was the only problem and why I could not duplicate the results. Loading IgorBeghetto's xml file shows it works just right (it is amazing what he can do !). So then I could duplicate with any video I wanted so anyone can do this too. See attached which shows similar results. Thank you as always IgorBeghetto. On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 3:26 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Okay. Thanks Phyllis! If You want to open my Project I added here a compressed file. Because You may not have not the same font that I am using, in the timeline you will find another video track below "V1" track: "V1_Title2PNG" video track. It uses a PNG instead of the Title effect. In the Patchbay You must enable "Play track" on the "V1" track, if you have the font API_Phonetique(JJMG) installed, otherwise disable "Play track" on the "V1" and enable "V1_Title2PNG" video track. The project is saved with "V1_Title2PNG" disabled. For space reasons the video has been converted to a JPG frame. (Tested with CinGG-20220928-x86_64-older_distros.AppImage)
IgorBeg
Il 07/10/2022 18:47, Phyllis Smith ha scritto:
it is just good enough that we know it can be done as you have proven. Anyday, yes, Color Model is set to RGBA-8 and the only reason I set the value to 0.0334 was to make sure I was not missing something. I was not real sure which V1 Blur was which, but I switched the 2 a couple of times to make sure I was not getting that wrong.
-- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
"it is amazing what *Cinelerra-GG* can do !" Thanks to all of You (developers, contributors) for this great software! IgorBeg Il 09/10/2022 20:17, Phyllis Smith wrote:
OK, it looks like the font I used was the only problem and why I could not duplicate the results. Loading IgorBeghetto's xml file shows it works just right (it is amazing what he can do !).
So then I could duplicate with any video I wanted so anyone can do this too. See attached which shows similar results.
participants (5)
-
Andrea paz -
Andrew Randrianasulu -
Igor BEGHETTO -
mnieuw＠zap.a2000.nl -
Phyllis Smith