Can 'play track' status propagate to ganged tracks?
Title says it all really. Didn't notice the new ganged tracks functionality till now (have a new project which needs a bit more than my usual workflow), and it looks like it'll help, but for this project I'm lining up a tonne of media in different tracks and would like to be able to easily 'mute' tracks (I use the 'play track' green arrow for that). I know I can just adjust the volume as a stop gap, but that tends to lead to volume issues at the end when I'm pushing everything back up (something will definitely get only halfway till 100%).
I don't know if I understood well your request, but the Gange tracks mode was born (@AVLinux request) to create a Master track with its Slave tracks, saving space on the Timeline (short explain, sorry; it makes more). An User might want to disable "Play track" on a Master track but don't its Slave tracks (to be able to see or hear the content) , I think. IgorBeg Il 09/10/2020 11:25, Oon-Ee Ng via Cin ha scritto:
Title says it all really. Didn't notice the new ganged tracks functionality till now (have a new project which needs a bit more than my usual workflow), and it looks like it'll help, but for this project I'm lining up a tonne of media in different tracks and would like to be able to easily 'mute' tracks (I use the 'play track' green arrow for that).
I know I can just adjust the volume as a stop gap, but that tends to lead to volume issues at the end when I'm pushing everything back up (something will definitely get only halfway till 100%).
I don't think I understood the request very well. If by "ganged" you mean the "Master track" button, then IgorBeg's answer is valid; if you mean the "Gang fader" button then read below. Let's make an example: we have 5 audio tracks. tracks 1 and 2 are the musical background and are stereo; 3 and 4 are sound effects and are stereo; finally track 5 is the voice and is mono. If I understand correctly you want to disable play track only for the first two (for example) and you want to get this automatically, acting only on track 1, because they are ganged ("gang fader" button) unlike the others. So disabling track 1 will automatically disable track 2 to which it is ganged, but not the other tracks (which are not ganged). The idea is good but, in my opinion, it leads to too much work and design in constantly changing the ganged tracks (first track 1 and 2, then only track 3 and 4, then 1 and 2 and 5, etc). Much better to use Shift+click on the "Play track" button of track 1 that disables it (or, on the contrary, enables it) and at the same time enables (disables) the playtrack of ALL the other tracks. Then we can also disable track2 (without Shift) so that we have disabled only track 1 and 2 but not all the others. Instructions can be found in the manual, section 5.1.
You have understood correctly. I was under the impression the new gang tracks was meant to group audio (stereo or 5.1) together, in which case propagating the play status makes sense to me. I ended up reverting to the old way of doing things, as is normally the case. Thanks also to the other respondent who mentioned shift, that really helps on smaller size projects. On Sat, 10 Oct 2020, 16:03 Igor BEGHETTO via Cin, < [email protected]> wrote:
I don't know if I understood well your request, but the Gange tracks mode was born (@AVLinux request) to create a Master track with its Slave tracks, saving space on the Timeline (short explain, sorry; it makes more). An User might want to disable "Play track" on a Master track but don't its Slave tracks (to be able to see or hear the content) , I think.
IgorBeg
Il 09/10/2020 11:25, Oon-Ee Ng via Cin ha scritto:
Title says it all really. Didn't notice the new ganged tracks functionality till now (have a new project which needs a bit more than my usual workflow), and it looks like it'll help, but for this project I'm lining up a tonne of media in different tracks and would like to be able to easily 'mute' tracks (I use the 'play track' green arrow for that).
I know I can just adjust the volume as a stop gap, but that tends to lead to volume issues at the end when I'm pushing everything back up (something will definitely get only halfway till 100%). -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Oon-Ee Ng:
I was under the impression the new gang tracks was meant to group audio (stereo or 5.1) together, in which case propagating the play status makes sense to me.
The "Play track" status IS propagated to all of the stereo or 5.1 tracks belonging to that video. You will need to be in "Gang Channels" mode which is colored yellow and once you turn off "Play track" for the 1 audio track that is now the only visible one for that video, it will be equivalent to turning off the other audio tracks associated with that video. Please followup with whether or not this works for you as expected -- the whole purpose of adding the Ganging was to not have to revert to the normal way. Thank you.
once you turn off "Play track" for the 1 audio track that is now the only visible one for that video, it will be equivalent to turning off the other audio tracks associated with that video. (Waiting for Oon-Ee_Ng reply) Sorry, but by my tests and my reply to Oon-Ee_Ng it does't work in that way. And in Manual (well done) no indicates about. (tested on Cin_20200930 and Cin_20201011_by_GIT)
IgorBeg
IgorBeg:
once you turn off "Play track" for the 1 audio track that is now the only visible one for that video, it will be equivalent to turning off the other audio tracks associated with that video.
(Waiting for Oon-Ee_Ng reply) Sorry, but by my tests and my reply to Oon-Ee_Ng it does't work in that way. And in Manual (well done) no indicates about.
Uh-oh! I thought it was working because I tested it and could not hear anything on the 2nd audio track of stereo media. Well, the real problem is I have trouble hearing out of my left ear because when I was a little girl, I got kicked in the head by a cow (true story). The question is SHOULD the patchbay work in a "gang mode"? I have not asked GG yet if it is easily possible. Sorry for confusion, Phyllis.
Phyllis Smith wrote:
...when I was a little girl, I got kicked in the head by a cow (true story) Really? Mmh, it must have been traumatic, I think.
The question is SHOULD the patchbay work in a "gang mode"? It could be useful in GangChannels mode; for example for Multi Camera editing where we have disable the "Play track" for each of Mixer Viewers. I read (again) from forum (and MantisBT https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/bugtracker/view.php?id=433) the AVLinux (Glen) request and discussions by Pierre, dankinzelman and so on. I don't know if implementing this feature would be good for them (I guess,.. YES). It was born "only" for save visual space and perform a "share" function of the Effects to other slave audio tracks.
IgorBeg PS: I think there is a bug for the slave Video tracks. Please, take a look at https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/bugtracker/view.php?id=529
Andrea, IgorBeg: about the following:
The question is SHOULD the patchbay work in a "gang mode"? It could be useful in GangChannels mode; for example for Multi Camera editing where we have disable the "Play track" for each of Mixer Viewers.
Some changes have been made to the Gang Mode code.
*Gang mode* changes include: 1) Gang flags in the patchbay specifically when in Gang Channels or Gang Media modes will operate as set in the Master Track. For example, if when in Gang Channels mode, you turn off “Play track” on the visible audio track, none of the associated channels (i.e. the other stereo or other 5 channels will play). And if in Gang Media mode, if you turn on “Play track” for the Master Track that is video, all associated video and audio tracks will play; which means that even if you turned off “Play track for all of the associated audio/video slave tracks, they will still play. 2) A bug was found while working on Gang Modes where the Master Track was set incorrectly. 3) The gang flag was originally stored in the EDL session but is now moved in order to maintain correct rendering. This means that for any existing project, the gang mode will be set to 1 initially but then when resaved in the user preference mode, will be right the next time loaded.
I have a doubt... Often on the two tracks of my camera, I record the same sound but from two different microphones or, from the same microphone but at differents sensitivity levels. Most of the time, when editing, I use only one of the two sound tracks, I deactivate the other one, but I keep it in reserve for moments the main track would be unsatisfactory. If in Gang Channels or Gang Media mode this deactivated track starts to play out of my control... I would have a problem. I'm not sure this automatism is a good idea. Pierre Le 20-10-19 à 21 h 27, Phyllis Smith via Cin a écrit :
Some changes have been made to the Gang Mode code.
*Gang mode* changes include:
1) Gang flags in the patchbay specifically when in Gang Channels or Gang Media modes willoperate as set in the Master Track. For example, if when in Gang Channels mode, you turn off“Play track” on the visible audio track, none of the associated channels (i.e. the other stereo orother 5 channels will play). And if in Gang Media mode, if you turn on “Play track” for theMaster Track that is video, all associated video and audio tracks will play; which means that evenif you turned off “Play track for all of the associated audio/video slave tracks, they will still play.
New git release. 1) Gang Channel: Propagation works for me. I testing with "Play Track" and "Arm/Disarm" buttons. Note: the correction of the manual I sent you is wrong, sorry! Go back to your version because I assumed that, in case of a master audio track, we would see that and also the first slave audio track (related to the audio track master)! Sorry for the confusion I made! 2) Pierre's note is to be taken into consideration; is it possible to choose between the two behaviors? 3) Labels: it works for me!
I have done a few of tests with Cin20201020 release by git. Pierre wrote:
I'm not sure this automatism is a good idea. I understand what Pierre meant.
I think that an User might just want to save space. Sometimes I use Gang modes only for save space on the timeline, in my case I use it for Video tracks. And it may occur that I have to disable "Play track" on one or more Slave tracks (an example may be Mixer Viewer, Multi Camera editing). So I have the "Play track" of the Master Track enabled and all the "Play track" of the Slave tracks disabled: with the new changes, it doesn't work anymore. Like Andrea_paz wrote, is it possible to make this feature an option in Preferences (or where you think better)? Thanks! IgorBeg
IgorBeg: We must remember what the goal of the "Gang Channels" was -- it was to ensure that the Audiophiles do NOT have to mark each and every audio track the exact same way which created mistakes. They expect to turn off "Play track" and have none of the possibly 6 audio tracks playing -- else they would have to switch to "Gang None" mode, click on each of the 6 tracks to disable "Play track". That is exactly what the Gang Channels mode was for to prevent this duplication. I think that an User might just want to save space.
Sometimes I use Gang modes only for save space on the timeline, in my case I use it for Video tracks. And it may occur that I have to disable "Play track" on one or more Slave tracks (an example may be Mixer Viewer, Multi Camera editing). So I have the "Play track" of the Master Track enabled and all the "Play track" of the Slave tracks disabled: with the new changes, it doesn't work anymore. Like Andrea_paz wrote, is it possible to make this feature an option in Preferences (or where you think better)?
We will contemplate this today some more, but making it a Preference is not a good idea.
В сообщении от Friday 23 October 2020 17:51:42 Phyllis Smith via Cin написал(а):
IgorBeg:
We must remember what the goal of the "Gang Channels" was -- it was to ensure that the Audiophiles do NOT have to mark each and every audio track the exact same way which created mistakes. They expect to turn off "Play track" and have none of the possibly 6 audio tracks playing -- else they would have to switch to "Gang None" mode, click on each of the 6 tracks to disable "Play track". That is exactly what the Gang Channels mode was for to prevent this duplication.
I think that an User might just want to save space.
Sometimes I use Gang modes only for save space on the timeline, in my case I use it for Video tracks. And it may occur that I have to disable "Play track" on one or more Slave tracks (an example may be Mixer Viewer, Multi Camera editing). So I have the "Play track" of the Master Track enabled and all the "Play track" of the Slave tracks disabled: with the new changes, it doesn't work anymore. Like Andrea_paz wrote, is it possible to make this feature an option in Preferences (or where you think better)?
We will contemplate this today some more, but making it a Preference is not a good idea.
May be yet another gang_mode? (this way it will be saved in user's session).
(I forgot to send this email) ----------------------------------- Pierre, the Gang modes are still pretty new and we may still have to make adjustments. Often on the two tracks of my camera, I record the same sound but from
two different microphones or, from the same microphone but at differents sensitivity levels.
Most of the time, when editing, I use only one of the two sound tracks, I deactivate the other one, but I keep it in reserve for moments the main track would be unsatisfactory.
If in Gang Channels or Gang Media mode this deactivated track starts to play out of my control... I would have a problem.
You can always use it as before when no Gang modes existed. But there is already an easy enough solution if taking advantage of Gang modes. To ensure that the deactivated track does not play, just move the slider in the Audio patchbay all the way to the left.
I'm not sure this automatism is a good idea.
I'm not sure either, but GG thinks there may be another solution.
You're right Phyllis, I tend to see in the gang mode only an optimization of the vertical space, but in reality this is not its basic objective, which is rather related to the simultaneous configuration of the multiple associated tracks. Okay, let's see what it looks like. Pierre Le 20-10-23 à 10 h 22, Phyllis Smith a écrit :
(I forgot to send this email) ----------------------------------- Pierre, the Gang modes are still pretty new and we may still have to make adjustments.
Often on the two tracks of my camera, I record the same sound but from two different microphones or, from the same microphone but at differents sensitivity levels.
Most of the time, when editing, I use only one of the two sound tracks, I deactivate the other one, but I keep it in reserve for moments the main track would be unsatisfactory.
If in Gang Channels or Gang Media mode this deactivated track starts to play out of my control... I would have a problem.
You can always use it as before when no Gang modes existed. But there is already an easy enough solution if taking advantage of Gang modes. To ensure that the deactivated track does not play, just move the slider in the Audio patchbay all the way to the left.
I'm not sure this automatism is a good idea.
I'm not sure either, but GG thinks there may be another solution.
Pierre: GG made a mod that is a slight improvement. If you have time, please check it out. There is a Mint 18 static tar at: https://cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-mint18-x86_64-static... And a Ubuntu 16 static tar at: https://cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-ub16-x86_64-static.t... Here is how it works now (at least I think I got it right in testing): Gang None - same as always Gang Channels - the first audio track "Play track" rules all audio tracks; so if enabled then that track + any enabled associated audio tracks will play while the disabled ones will not play - the first audio track "Play track" rules all audio tracks; so if disabled then no tracks will play Gang Media - all audio tracks will honor their states; so if an audio track is disabled then it will not play and if enabled it will play In Gang Channels mode, you may notice that there is no way to not play the first track while still playing the others. However, Gang Media allows for this. There was no easy way to account for this. I have not checked the Video tracks to see if they follow the same rules. On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 2:13 PM Pierre autourduglobe via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
You're right Phyllis, I tend to see in the gang mode only an optimization of the vertical space, but in reality this is not its basic objective, which is rather related to the simultaneous configuration of the multiple associated tracks.
Okay, let's see what it looks like.
Pierre
Le 20-10-23 à 10 h 22, Phyllis Smith a écrit :
(I forgot to send this email) ----------------------------------- Pierre, the Gang modes are still pretty new and we may still have to make adjustments.
Often on the two tracks of my camera, I record the same sound but from two different microphones or, from the same microphone but at differents sensitivity levels.
Most of the time, when editing, I use only one of the two sound tracks, I deactivate the other one, but I keep it in reserve for moments the main track would be unsatisfactory.
If in Gang Channels or Gang Media mode this deactivated track starts to play out of my control... I would have a problem.
You can always use it as before when no Gang modes existed. But there is already an easy enough solution if taking advantage of Gang modes. To ensure that the deactivated track does not play, just move the slider in the Audio patchbay all the way to the left.
I'm not sure this automatism is a good idea.
I'm not sure either, but GG thinks there may be another solution.
-- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Thinking that Gang mode feature is for Audio Channels, I think GG has found an excellent solution. So, it also solves the problem highlighted by Pierre. GG, really good idea/work!
I have not checked the Video tracks to see if they follow the same rules. Not in the way I wrote in https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/bugtracker/view.php?id=529). If it were possible that it also worked for Video tracks it would be perfect. Anyway I understand. Thanks!
IgorBeg PS: GG/Phyllis, thanks for the Ubuntu16 build. My Notebook needed about one hour to make a new build by git, so you save me one hour of time that I can use to test the Cin-testing-release. Il 25/10/2020 02:51, Phyllis Smith via Cin ha scritto:
Pierre: GG made a mod that is a slight improvement. If you have time, please check it out. There is a Mint 18 static tar at: https://cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-mint18-x86_64-static... And a Ubuntu 16 static tar at: https://cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-ub16-x86_64-static.t...
Here is how it works now (at least I think I got it right in testing):
Gang None - same as always Gang Channels - the first audio track "Play track" rules all audio tracks; so if enabled then that track + any enabled associated audio tracks will play while the disabled ones will not play - the first audio track "Play track" rules all audio tracks; so if disabled then no tracks will play Gang Media - all audio tracks will honor their states; so if an audio track is disabled then it will not play and if enabled it will play
In Gang Channels mode, you may notice that there is no way to not play the first track while still playing the others. However, Gang Media allows for this. There was no easy way to account for this.
Ok Phyllis, I tested the October 24th version and the audio tracks behave as you described them under the different "Gang" states. "Gang Channel" seems to me to be intended and to correspond to the needs of those who want to process the sound tracks in a uniform block. For me this mode will only be useful, if the track I disable is always the second one; if it is the first one I want to disable, I couldn't use this mode since the other tracks of this block wouldn't play either... But it doesn't matter... because the "Gang Media" mode will be perfect for me; I'll be able to configure the sound tracks individually as I like, while being able to make them invisible and recover vertical space (especially useful when using my laptop in single screen mode). I also tested the behavior of these Gang options with video mixers. With video tracks, only their active or inactive status determines if they appear and play as well in "Gang Channel" and "Gang Media" mode; being the first video track associated with a master video track has no effect. Pierre Le 20-10-24 à 20 h 51, Phyllis Smith a écrit :
Pierre: GG made a mod that is a slight improvement. If you have time, please check it out. There is a Mint 18 static tar at: https://cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-mint18-x86_64-static... And a Ubuntu 16 static tar at: https://cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-ub16-x86_64-static.t...
Here is how it works now (at least I think I got it right in testing):
Gang None - same as always Gang Channels - the first audio track "Play track" rules all audio tracks; so if enabled then that track + any enabled associated audio tracks will play while the disabled ones will not play - the first audio track "Play track" rules all audio tracks; so if disabled then no tracks will play Gang Media - all audio tracks will honor their states; so if an audio track is disabled then it will not play and if enabled it will play
In Gang Channels mode, you may notice that there is no way to not play the first track while still playing the others. However, Gang Media allows for this. There was no easy way to account for this.
I have not checked the Video tracks to see if they follow the same rules.
On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 2:13 PM Pierre autourduglobe via Cin <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
You're right Phyllis, I tend to see in the gang mode only an optimization of the vertical space, but in reality this is not its basic objective, which is rather related to the simultaneous configuration of the multiple associated tracks.
Okay, let's see what it looks like.
Pierre
Le 20-10-23 à 10 h 22, Phyllis Smith a écrit : > (I forgot to send this email) > ----------------------------------- > Pierre, the Gang modes are still pretty new and we may still have to > make adjustments. > > Often on the two tracks of my camera, I record the same sound but from > two different microphones or, from the same microphone but at > differents > sensitivity levels. > > Most of the time, when editing, I use only one of the two sound tracks, > I deactivate the other one, but I keep it in reserve for moments the > main track would be unsatisfactory. > > If in Gang Channels or Gang Media mode this deactivated track starts to > play out of my control... I would have a problem. > > > You can always use it as before when no Gang modes existed. But there > is already an easy enough solution if taking advantage of Gang modes. > To ensure that the deactivated track does not play, just move the slider > in the Audio patchbay all the way to the left. > > > I'm not sure this automatism is a good idea. > > > I'm not sure either, but GG thinks there may be another solution. > -- Cin mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
I also tested the behavior of these Gang options with video mixers. With video tracks, only their active or inactive status determines if they appear and play as well in "Gang Channel" and "Gang Media" mode; being the first video track associated with a master video track has no effect. Just to let You (all) know. When we use Mixer Viewers for MultiCam we usually disable "Play Track" of each video mixer tracks to show the videos only on the Mixer Viewers. Saving space on the screen an User may think of using "Gang Channel" or "Gang Media" features (Mixer viewers will be the slave tracks) but the little Viewers (Mixer Viewers) don't play anymore as they usually do. So, you must always use "Gang None" mode, and this should be written in the Manual (or solve it in another way for the video tracks), I think. Please take a look at the screencast https://streamable.com/gjiwkq Thanks!
IgorBeg
participants (6)
-
Andrea paz -
Andrew Randrianasulu -
Igor BEGHETTO -
Oon-Ee Ng -
Phyllis Smith -
Pierre autourduglobe