Cannot render above 60FPS
Hello, I cannot seem to figure out how to render video over 60FPS. I can do 60 FPS and below with no issue. Everything is rock solid stable and very performant. I am using Cin gg latest on Ubuntu. My source video is 2560x1440 at 90FPS. What I've been doing: - start new project - Settings -> Format, manually type 90.000 in "Frame Rate". Ensure that 2560 and 1440 are in Width and Height accordingly. Then I click apply, then click OK. - load my file through resources. right click on thumb of my video in resources, and choose "match all". Then when I render my project with "File Format" of "FFMPEG" and "type" of "mp4" I get these error message windows/errors: One error window with: ------------ "Couldn't open /path/to/outfile.mp4" ------------ and another window titled "Cinelerra: Messages" with this in it: -------------- int FFMPEG:open_encoder(const char*, const char*): check_frame_rate failed /path/to/outfile.mp4 --------- Am I doing something wrong? Thank you in advance.
On Monday, June 14, 2021, gorge rankin via Cin <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello,
I cannot seem to figure out how to render video over 60FPS.
Yes, i can confirm this bug.. Just set project/timeline to 100 fps and got this.. After inspecting cinelerram/ffmpeg.C I tried few things, but working one was just replacing this check_framerate function with std. function from libavcodec: https://ffmpeg.org/doxygen/3.2/group__lavu__math__rational.html#ga7dfd5ba1eb... AVRational FFMPEG::to_sample_aspect_ratio(Asset *asset) @@ -2917,7 +2919,8 @@ int FFMPEG::open_encoder(const char *type, const char *spec) int mask_h = (1<<desc->log2_chroma_h)-1; ctx->height = (vid->height+mask_h) & ~mask_h; ctx->sample_aspect_ratio = to_sample_aspect_ratio(asset); - AVRational frame_rate = check_frame_rate(codec->supported_framerates, vid->frame_rate); + //AVRational frame_rate = check_frame_rate(codec->supported_framerates, vid->frame_rate); + AVRational frame_rate = av_d2q(vid->frame_rate, 1000); if( !frame_rate.num || !frame_rate.den ) { eprintf(_("check_frame_rate failed %s\n"), filename); ret = 1; I tested 29.97 encoding and 100 and 1000 fps encoding - they come out correctly, according to ffprobe/mediainfo. Not sure why such strange convolved method of checking framerate was choosen... Only mpeg1/2 in ffmpeg-4.4 set those .supported->framerates arrays.. (grep supported_framerates libavcodec/*.c) $ grep supported_framerates thirdparty/ffmpeg-4.4/libavcodec/*.c thirdparty/ffmpeg-4.4/libavcodec/mpeg12enc.c: .supported_framerates = ff_mpeg12_frame_rate_tab + 1, thirdparty/ffmpeg-4.4/libavcodec/mpeg12enc.c: .supported_framerates = ff_mpeg2_frame_rate_tab, $ In theory this fix should also 'fix' high-fps proxies with mpeg2 (non-standart stream, but only ffmpeg supposed to read it..) Just checked ffmpeg/mpeg type and it works....
I can do 60 FPS and below with no issue. Everything is rock solid stable and very performant.
I am using Cin gg latest on Ubuntu.
My source video is 2560x1440 at 90FPS.
What I've been doing: - start new project - Settings -> Format, manually type 90.000 in "Frame Rate". Ensure that 2560 and 1440 are in Width and Height accordingly. Then I click apply, then click OK. - load my file through resources. right click on thumb of my video in resources, and choose "match all".
Then when I render my project with "File Format" of "FFMPEG" and "type" of "mp4" I get these error message windows/errors:
One error window with: ------------ "Couldn't open /path/to/outfile.mp4" ------------
and another window titled "Cinelerra: Messages" with this in it: -------------- int FFMPEG:open_encoder(const char*, const char*): check_frame_rate failed /path/to/outfile.mp4 ---------
Am I doing something wrong?
Thank you in advance.
Ah, no - 23.97 and 59.94 fps/mpeg2 were broken! But with attached patch the seems to work again, as well as 100 fps mp4/x264 encoding (also tried mov) Can you test as much as possible various (long!) films / videos for desync problem? I also can try and add few more fps choices in this menu... On Monday, June 14, 2021, Andrew Randrianasulu <[email protected]> wrote:
On Monday, June 14, 2021, gorge rankin via Cin <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello,
I cannot seem to figure out how to render video over 60FPS.
Yes, i can confirm this bug.. Just set project/timeline to 100 fps and got this.. After inspecting cinelerram/ffmpeg.C I tried few things, but working one was just replacing this check_framerate function with std. function from libavcodec:
https://ffmpeg.org/doxygen/3.2/group__lavu__math__rational.html# ga7dfd5ba1eb1edf5845ac32b338de9e76
AVRational FFMPEG::to_sample_aspect_ratio(Asset *asset) @@ -2917,7 +2919,8 @@ int FFMPEG::open_encoder(const char *type, const char *spec) int mask_h = (1<<desc->log2_chroma_h)-1; ctx->height = (vid->height+mask_h) & ~mask_h; ctx->sample_aspect_ratio = to_sample_aspect_ratio(asset); - AVRational frame_rate = check_frame_rate(codec->supported_framerates, vid->frame_rate); + //AVRational frame_rate = check_frame_rate(codec->supported_framerates, vid->frame_rate); + AVRational frame_rate = av_d2q(vid->frame_rate, 1000); if( !frame_rate.num || !frame_rate.den ) { eprintf(_("check_frame_rate failed %s\n"), filename); ret = 1; I tested 29.97 encoding and 100 and 1000 fps encoding - they come out correctly, according to ffprobe/mediainfo.
Not sure why such strange convolved method of checking framerate was choosen... Only mpeg1/2 in ffmpeg-4.4 set those .supported->framerates arrays.. (grep supported_framerates libavcodec/*.c)
$ grep supported_framerates thirdparty/ffmpeg-4.4/libavcodec/*.c thirdparty/ffmpeg-4.4/libavcodec/mpeg12enc.c: .supported_framerates = ff_mpeg12_frame_rate_tab + 1, thirdparty/ffmpeg-4.4/libavcodec/mpeg12enc.c: .supported_framerates = ff_mpeg2_frame_rate_tab, $
In theory this fix should also 'fix' high-fps proxies with mpeg2 (non-standart stream, but only ffmpeg supposed to read it..) Just checked ffmpeg/mpeg type and it works....
I can do 60 FPS and below with no issue. Everything is rock solid stable and very performant.
I am using Cin gg latest on Ubuntu.
My source video is 2560x1440 at 90FPS.
What I've been doing: - start new project - Settings -> Format, manually type 90.000 in "Frame Rate". Ensure that 2560 and 1440 are in Width and Height accordingly. Then I click apply, then click OK. - load my file through resources. right click on thumb of my video in resources, and choose "match all".
Then when I render my project with "File Format" of "FFMPEG" and "type" of "mp4" I get these error message windows/errors:
One error window with: ------------ "Couldn't open /path/to/outfile.mp4" ------------
and another window titled "Cinelerra: Messages" with this in it: -------------- int FFMPEG:open_encoder(const char*, const char*): check_frame_rate failed /path/to/outfile.mp4 ---------
Am I doing something wrong?
Thank you in advance.
See updated patch. I tried few more fps choices - some work, but say 72/144 fps still do not work with mpeg2 .. :/ On Monday, June 14, 2021, Andrew Randrianasulu <[email protected]> wrote:
Ah, no - 23.97 and 59.94 fps/mpeg2 were broken!
But with attached patch the seems to work again, as well as 100 fps mp4/x264 encoding (also tried mov)
Can you test as much as possible various (long!) films / videos for desync problem?
I also can try and add few more fps choices in this menu...
On Monday, June 14, 2021, Andrew Randrianasulu <[email protected]> wrote:
On Monday, June 14, 2021, gorge rankin via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Hello,
I cannot seem to figure out how to render video over 60FPS.
Yes, i can confirm this bug.. Just set project/timeline to 100 fps and got this.. After inspecting cinelerram/ffmpeg.C I tried few things, but working one was just replacing this check_framerate function with std. function from libavcodec:
https://ffmpeg.org/doxygen/3.2/group__lavu__math__rational.h tml#ga7dfd5ba1eb1edf5845ac32b338de9e76
AVRational FFMPEG::to_sample_aspect_ratio(Asset *asset) @@ -2917,7 +2919,8 @@ int FFMPEG::open_encoder(const char *type, const char *spec) int mask_h = (1<<desc->log2_chroma_h)-1; ctx->height = (vid->height+mask_h) & ~mask_h; ctx->sample_aspect_ratio = to_sample_aspect_ratio(asset); - AVRational frame_rate = check_frame_rate(codec->supported_framerates, vid->frame_rate); + //AVRational frame_rate = check_frame_rate(codec->supported_framerates, vid->frame_rate); + AVRational frame_rate = av_d2q(vid->frame_rate, 1000); if( !frame_rate.num || !frame_rate.den ) { eprintf(_("check_frame_rate failed %s\n"), filename); ret = 1; I tested 29.97 encoding and 100 and 1000 fps encoding - they come out correctly, according to ffprobe/mediainfo.
Not sure why such strange convolved method of checking framerate was choosen... Only mpeg1/2 in ffmpeg-4.4 set those .supported->framerates arrays.. (grep supported_framerates libavcodec/*.c)
$ grep supported_framerates thirdparty/ffmpeg-4.4/libavcodec/*.c thirdparty/ffmpeg-4.4/libavcodec/mpeg12enc.c: .supported_framerates = ff_mpeg12_frame_rate_tab + 1, thirdparty/ffmpeg-4.4/libavcodec/mpeg12enc.c: .supported_framerates = ff_mpeg2_frame_rate_tab, $
In theory this fix should also 'fix' high-fps proxies with mpeg2 (non-standart stream, but only ffmpeg supposed to read it..) Just checked ffmpeg/mpeg type and it works....
I can do 60 FPS and below with no issue. Everything is rock solid stable and very performant.
I am using Cin gg latest on Ubuntu.
My source video is 2560x1440 at 90FPS.
What I've been doing: - start new project - Settings -> Format, manually type 90.000 in "Frame Rate". Ensure that 2560 and 1440 are in Width and Height accordingly. Then I click apply, then click OK. - load my file through resources. right click on thumb of my video in resources, and choose "match all".
Then when I render my project with "File Format" of "FFMPEG" and "type" of "mp4" I get these error message windows/errors:
One error window with: ------------ "Couldn't open /path/to/outfile.mp4" ------------
and another window titled "Cinelerra: Messages" with this in it: -------------- int FFMPEG:open_encoder(const char*, const char*): check_frame_rate failed /path/to/outfile.mp4 ---------
Am I doing something wrong?
Thank you in advance.
Andrew, I am in the process of testing many variations now. I hope to be able to create an AppImage later today for user to test also. Thanks, Phyllis On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 11:41 AM Andrew Randrianasulu via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
See updated patch.
I tried few more fps choices - some work, but say 72/144 fps still do not work with mpeg2 .. :/
On Monday, June 14, 2021, Andrew Randrianasulu <[email protected]> wrote:
Ah, no - 23.97 and 59.94 fps/mpeg2 were broken!
But with attached patch the seems to work again, as well as 100 fps mp4/x264 encoding (also tried mov)
Can you test as much as possible various (long!) films / videos for desync problem?
I also can try and add few more fps choices in this menu...
On Monday, June 14, 2021, Andrew Randrianasulu <[email protected]> wrote:
On Monday, June 14, 2021, gorge rankin via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Hello,
I cannot seem to figure out how to render video over 60FPS.
Yes, i can confirm this bug.. Just set project/timeline to 100 fps and got this.. After inspecting cinelerram/ffmpeg.C I tried few things, but working one was just replacing this check_framerate function with std. function from libavcodec:
https://ffmpeg.org/doxygen/3.2/group__lavu__math__rational.html#ga7dfd5ba1eb...
AVRational FFMPEG::to_sample_aspect_ratio(Asset *asset) @@ -2917,7 +2919,8 @@ int FFMPEG::open_encoder(const char *type, const char *spec) int mask_h = (1<<desc->log2_chroma_h)-1; ctx->height = (vid->height+mask_h) & ~mask_h; ctx->sample_aspect_ratio = to_sample_aspect_ratio(asset); - AVRational frame_rate = check_frame_rate(codec->supported_framerates, vid->frame_rate); + //AVRational frame_rate = check_frame_rate(codec->supported_framerates, vid->frame_rate); + AVRational frame_rate = av_d2q(vid->frame_rate, 1000); if( !frame_rate.num || !frame_rate.den ) { eprintf(_("check_frame_rate failed %s\n"), filename); ret = 1; I tested 29.97 encoding and 100 and 1000 fps encoding - they come out correctly, according to ffprobe/mediainfo.
Not sure why such strange convolved method of checking framerate was choosen... Only mpeg1/2 in ffmpeg-4.4 set those .supported->framerates arrays.. (grep supported_framerates libavcodec/*.c)
$ grep supported_framerates thirdparty/ffmpeg-4.4/libavcodec/*.c thirdparty/ffmpeg-4.4/libavcodec/mpeg12enc.c: .supported_framerates = ff_mpeg12_frame_rate_tab + 1, thirdparty/ffmpeg-4.4/libavcodec/mpeg12enc.c: .supported_framerates = ff_mpeg2_frame_rate_tab, $
In theory this fix should also 'fix' high-fps proxies with mpeg2 (non-standart stream, but only ffmpeg supposed to read it..) Just checked ffmpeg/mpeg type and it works....
I can do 60 FPS and below with no issue. Everything is rock solid stable and very performant.
I am using Cin gg latest on Ubuntu.
My source video is 2560x1440 at 90FPS.
What I've been doing: - start new project - Settings -> Format, manually type 90.000 in "Frame Rate". Ensure that 2560 and 1440 are in Width and Height accordingly. Then I click apply, then click OK. - load my file through resources. right click on thumb of my video in resources, and choose "match all".
Then when I render my project with "File Format" of "FFMPEG" and "type" of "mp4" I get these error message windows/errors:
One error window with: ------------ "Couldn't open /path/to/outfile.mp4" ------------
and another window titled "Cinelerra: Messages" with this in it: -------------- int FFMPEG:open_encoder(const char*, const char*): check_frame_rate failed /path/to/outfile.mp4 ---------
Am I doing something wrong?
Thank you in advance.
--
Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Gorge,
I cannot seem to figure out how to render video over 60FPS. ... int FFMPEG:open_encoder(const char*, const char*): check_frame_rate failed /path/to/outfile.mp4 --------- ... Am I doing something wrong?
As Andrew already stated, "no you are not doing anything wrong" -- it is a missing format and Andrew has fixed it and it has been checked into GIT. We have created a new version for you to use -- it is the same as the May 31, 2021 release except for the additions. You can download it here: https://cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cin_for_newer_distros.AppImage and it is a single file that you will have to make executable via a window command of: chmod +x cin_for_newer_distros.AppImage and then in a window, just keyin: {name of directory you put the file in}/cin_for_newer_distros.AppImage The benefit of this version is that unlike the package or tar file, it now has the "Alt/h" hotkey to get help when put the mouse somewhere. If you have problems using this, just reply. Thanks to Andrew for the patch, Phyllis
Gorge, what I know, 90 fps is out of standard. I can understand you needed it for your reasons. Could you use 120 fps, for example? Phyllis, Andrew_R, frame rate are important for compatibility but maybe Sam, AndreaPaz, Pierre, Terje, MatN and all, can says more about. IgorBeg
it seems forcing users to h265 for high-framerate content was not very bright idea at Adobe side) https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro/proxy-creation-in-100fps-not-pos... also on reddit some users pointed out h264 as format is not capped, just hw players will have trouble decoding this.. https://www.reddit.com/r/VideoEditing/comments/dms0qc/how_to_edit_a_90fps_vi... On Tuesday, June 15, 2021, Igor BEGHETTO via Cin <[email protected]> wrote:
Gorge, what I know, 90 fps is out of standard. I can understand you needed it for your reasons. Could you use 120 fps, for example?
Phyllis, Andrew_R, frame rate are important for compatibility but maybe Sam, AndreaPaz, Pierre, Terje, MatN and all, can says more about.
IgorBeg -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
The reason I'm using high framerate video for video game play footage. These days, people are gamin using 120, 144, 240 etc framerate monitors and using things like OBS, Slobs, MS Game DVR, nVidia Shadowplay to capture footage. ---------- Andrew Randrianasulu via Cin <[email protected]> Tue, Jun 15, 6:25 AM (2 days ago) to Cinelerra.GG, Andrew it seems forcing users to h265 for high-framerate content was not very bright idea at Adobe side) https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro/proxy-creation-in-100fps-not-pos... also on reddit some users pointed out h264 as format is not capped, just hw players will have trouble decoding this.. https://www.reddit.com/r/VideoEditing/comments/dms0qc/how_to_edit_a_90fps_vi... On Tuesday, June 15, 2021, Igor BEGHETTO via Cin <[email protected]> wrote: Gorge, what I know, 90 fps is out of standard. I can understand you needed it for your reasons. Could you use 120 fps, for example? Phyllis, Andrew_R, frame rate are important for compatibility but maybe Sam, AndreaPaz, Pierre, Terje, MatN and all, can says more about. IgorBeg -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 6:25 AM Andrew Randrianasulu via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
it seems forcing users to h265 for high-framerate content was not very bright idea at Adobe side)
https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro/proxy-creation-in-100fps-not-pos...
also on reddit some users pointed out h264 as format is not capped, just hw players will have trouble decoding this..
https://www.reddit.com/r/VideoEditing/comments/dms0qc/how_to_edit_a_90fps_vi...
On Tuesday, June 15, 2021, Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Gorge, what I know, 90 fps is out of standard. I can understand you needed it for your reasons. Could you use 120 fps, for example?
Phyllis, Andrew_R, frame rate are important for compatibility but maybe Sam, AndreaPaz, Pierre, Terje, MatN and all, can says more about.
IgorBeg -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
-- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
I used the latest appimage that was posted for 'cin_for_newer_distros.AppImage' on Ubuntu 21.04 I've not had a chance to test on my older Ubuntu's yet. There is no version number, or gpg. The file has sha256sum: 09ee29682f5b427081d04f02e7565d2a59b20524a6139c81161d483f3838c9c9 I've been able to render 90 FPS video now. Thank you everyone! On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 4:08 AM gorge rankin <[email protected]> wrote:
The reason I'm using high framerate video for video game play footage.
These days, people are gamin using 120, 144, 240 etc framerate monitors and using things like OBS, Slobs, MS Game DVR, nVidia Shadowplay to capture footage.
---------- Andrew Randrianasulu via Cin <[email protected]> Tue, Jun 15, 6:25 AM (2 days ago) to Cinelerra.GG, Andrew
it seems forcing users to h265 for high-framerate content was not very bright idea at Adobe side)
https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro/proxy-creation-in-100fps-not-pos...
also on reddit some users pointed out h264 as format is not capped, just hw players will have trouble decoding this..
https://www.reddit.com/r/VideoEditing/comments/dms0qc/how_to_edit_a_90fps_vi...
On Tuesday, June 15, 2021, Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote: Gorge, what I know, 90 fps is out of standard. I can understand you needed it for your reasons. Could you use 120 fps, for example?
Phyllis, Andrew_R, frame rate are important for compatibility but maybe Sam, AndreaPaz, Pierre, Terje, MatN and all, can says more about.
IgorBeg -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 6:25 AM Andrew Randrianasulu via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
it seems forcing users to h265 for high-framerate content was not very bright idea at Adobe side)
https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro/proxy-creation-in-100fps-not-pos...
also on reddit some users pointed out h264 as format is not capped, just hw players will have trouble decoding this..
https://www.reddit.com/r/VideoEditing/comments/dms0qc/how_to_edit_a_90fps_vi...
On Tuesday, June 15, 2021, Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
Gorge, what I know, 90 fps is out of standard. I can understand you needed it for your reasons. Could you use 120 fps, for example?
Phyllis, Andrew_R, frame rate are important for compatibility but maybe Sam, AndreaPaz, Pierre, Terje, MatN and all, can says more about.
IgorBeg -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
-- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Just one last note. These days, people are gamin using 120, 144, 240 etc framerate monitors
These should all work now. 240 will have to be manually typed in. They sure render so slow though. I used the latest appimage that was posted for 'cin_for_newer_distros.AppImage'
on Ubuntu 21.04
I've not had a chance to test on my older Ubuntu's yet.
I did not create an AppImage for the older distros yet but there should be a new official release on June 30.
There is no version number, or gpg. The file has sha256sum: 09ee29682f5b427081d04f02e7565d2a59b20524a6139c81161d483f3838c9c9
I suppose I should start updating the sha256sum, but I still have a lot to learn to try to keep up.
I tried the new framerates and they all work without any problems. Below is the result of some renderings. [project time 3:48 min; render in .mp4, h264; Note: I didn't use the render farm so the encoding was more or less single-threaded] set format 30 fps ==> project: 5085 frames ==> rendering 64 fps set format 90 fps ==> project: 15258 frames ==> rendering 70.8 fps set format 100 fps ==> project: 16953 frames ==> rendering 71.4 fps set format 240 fps ==> project: 40687 frames ==> rendering 73.4 fps
On Friday, June 18, 2021, Andrea paz via Cin <[email protected]> wrote:
I tried the new framerates and they all work without any problems.
cool! Did you tried to import resulted files back into Cingg and try to proxy them?) Below is the result of some renderings.
[project time 3:48 min; render in .mp4, h264; Note: I didn't use the render farm so the encoding was more or less single-threaded]
set format 30 fps ==> project: 5085 frames ==> rendering 64 fps
set format 90 fps ==> project: 15258 frames ==> rendering 70.8 fps
set format 100 fps ==> project: 16953 frames ==> rendering 71.4 fps
set format 240 fps ==> project: 40687 frames ==> rendering 73.4 fps -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
cool! Did you tried to import resulted files back into Cingg and try to proxy them?)
Rendered again at 144 fps ==> OK; closed CinGG; start CinGG ; load the file mp4 at 144 fps (1080p) ==> OK Proxy a 1/2 default (mpeg) ==> error: int FFMPEG::open_encoder(const char*, const char*): check_frame_rate failed /home/paz/video_editing/prova/CinGG-std-test.proxy2-mp4.mpeg proxy: failed=1 canceled=0 int ProxyRender::create_needed_proxies(int): Error making proxy. proxy: failed=0 canceled=0 (The proxies are 2 because in the timeline I had created a clip and then brought it back into the timeline as a nested clip, appended to the previous edit.) Created a proxy in mov.mov (1/2) ==> OK Done various editing with proxy/original ==> OK Deleted the proxy ==> OK
What I know 72, 90, and 144 are not standard frame rates. I don't remember for 100 fps, seems to me not. I think only standard frame rates should be taken into consideration by Cinelerra-GG, otherwise what is a standard for? If an User uses a no standard frame rate She/He may have problem to play it somewhere. If You, like me, think that Cinelerra-GG is a professional program (I would say mostly Prosumer) only the standard frame rate should be there to avoid future/next problem with users (and broadcast). And could it happen for Video/Audio sync? IMHO, all of you can make a screencast with screen recorder at any (?) frame rate you want but when you use a NLE the Format Project should use the standard frame rates. What I know Cinelerra-GG may work with any source frame rate but the Project Format should be conformed to standards. The check on the frame rate that Cinelerra-GG performs are just for that. Sorry if I think so. I would like to know by Pierre, Sam, RafaMar and other Professionl Video Editor what they think about it. Thanks! IgorBeg Il 18/06/2021 15:46, Andrea paz via Cin ha scritto:
cool! Did you tried to import resulted files back into Cingg and try to proxy them?) Rendered again at 144 fps ==> OK; closed CinGG; start CinGG ; load the file mp4 at 144 fps (1080p) ==> OK Proxy a 1/2 default (mpeg) ==> error:
int FFMPEG::open_encoder(const char*, const char*): check_frame_rate failed /home/paz/video_editing/prova/CinGG-std-test.proxy2-mp4.mpeg proxy: failed=1 canceled=0 int ProxyRender::create_needed_proxies(int): Error making proxy. proxy: failed=0 canceled=0
(The proxies are 2 because in the timeline I had created a clip and then brought it back into the timeline as a nested clip, appended to the previous edit.)
Created a proxy in mov.mov (1/2) ==> OK Done various editing with proxy/original ==> OK Deleted the proxy ==> OK
On Saturday, June 19, 2021, Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
What I know 72, 90, and 144 are not standard frame rates. I don't remember for 100 fps, seems to me not.
ST 12-3:2016 - SMPTE Standard - Time Code for High Frame Rate Signals and Formatting in the Ancillary Data Space Abstract:This standard specifies time code formats with the frame counts 72, 96, 100 and 120 and the frame count 120 with drop-frame compensation. This standard also specifies a transmission format for conveyance of the time code and frame count in the ancillary data space of serial digital interfaces. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7438725 but try to get also all pdfs from https://www.smpte.org/free-standards-and-publications while you can.. downloading pdfs from tbis site seems to fail me probably due to my location (may be i have them on my main machine, but my machine is 1700km away and offline)
I think only standard frame rates should be taken into consideration by Cinelerra-GG, otherwise what is a standard for? If an User uses a no standard frame rate She/He may have problem to play it somewhere. If You, like me, think that Cinelerra-GG is a professional program (I would say mostly Prosumer) only the standard frame rate should be there to avoid future/next problem with users (and broadcast). And could it happen for Video/Audio sync? IMHO, all of you can make a screencast with screen recorder at any (?) frame rate you want but when you use a NLE the Format Project should use the standard frame rates. What I know Cinelerra-GG may work with any source frame rate but the Project Format should be conformed to standards. The check on the frame rate that Cinelerra-GG performs are just for that. Sorry if I think so.
I would like to know by Pierre, Sam, RafaMar and other Professionl Video Editor what they think about it.
Thanks! IgorBeg
Il 18/06/2021 15:46, Andrea paz via Cin ha scritto:
cool! Did you tried to import resulted files back into Cingg and try to proxy them?)
Rendered again at 144 fps ==> OK; closed CinGG; start CinGG ; load the file mp4 at 144 fps (1080p) ==> OK Proxy a 1/2 default (mpeg) ==> error:
int FFMPEG::open_encoder(const char*, const char*): check_frame_rate failed /home/paz/video_editing/prova/CinGG-std-test.proxy2-mp4.mpeg proxy: failed=1 canceled=0 int ProxyRender::create_needed_proxies(int): Error making proxy. proxy: failed=0 canceled=0
(The proxies are 2 because in the timeline I had created a clip and then brought it back into the timeline as a nested clip, appended to the previous edit.)
Created a proxy in mov.mov (1/2) ==> OK Done various editing with proxy/original ==> OK Deleted the proxy ==> OK
On Saturday, June 19, 2021, Andrew Randrianasulu <[email protected]> wrote:
On Saturday, June 19, 2021, Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
What I know 72, 90, and 144 are not standard frame rates. I don't remember for 100 fps, seems to me not.
ST 12-3:2016 - SMPTE Standard - Time Code for High Frame Rate Signals and Formatting in the Ancillary Data Space
Abstract:This standard specifies time code formats with the frame counts 72, 96, 100 and 120 and the frame count 120 with drop-frame compensation. This standard also specifies a transmission format for conveyance of the time code and frame count in the ancillary data space of serial digital interfaces.
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7438725
but try to get also all pdfs from
https://www.smpte.org/free-standards-and-publications
while you can.. downloading pdfs from tbis site seems to fail me probably due to my location (may be i have them on my main machine, but my machine is 1700km away and offline)
additionally this camera apparently can record at 90 (and up to 200) fps https://www.arri.com/en/learn-help/learn-help-camera-system/frequently-asked...
I think only standard frame rates should be taken into consideration by Cinelerra-GG, otherwise what is a standard for? If an User uses a no standard frame rate She/He may have problem to play it somewhere. If You, like me, think that Cinelerra-GG is a professional program (I would say mostly Prosumer) only the standard frame rate should be there to avoid future/next problem with users (and broadcast). And could it happen for Video/Audio sync? IMHO, all of you can make a screencast with screen recorder at any (?) frame rate you want but when you use a NLE the Format Project should use the standard frame rates. What I know Cinelerra-GG may work with any source frame rate but the Project Format should be conformed to standards. The check on the frame rate that Cinelerra-GG performs are just for that. Sorry if I think so.
I would like to know by Pierre, Sam, RafaMar and other Professionl Video Editor what they think about it.
Thanks! IgorBeg
Il 18/06/2021 15:46, Andrea paz via Cin ha scritto:
cool! Did you tried to import resulted files back into Cingg and try to proxy them?)
Rendered again at 144 fps ==> OK; closed CinGG; start CinGG ; load the file mp4 at 144 fps (1080p) ==> OK Proxy a 1/2 default (mpeg) ==> error:
int FFMPEG::open_encoder(const char*, const char*): check_frame_rate failed /home/paz/video_editing/prova/CinGG-std-test.proxy2-mp4.mpeg proxy: failed=1 canceled=0 int ProxyRender::create_needed_proxies(int): Error making proxy. proxy: failed=0 canceled=0
(The proxies are 2 because in the timeline I had created a clip and then brought it back into the timeline as a nested clip, appended to the previous edit.)
Created a proxy in mov.mov (1/2) ==> OK Done various editing with proxy/original ==> OK Deleted the proxy ==> OK
On Saturday, June 19, 2021, Andrew Randrianasulu <[email protected]> wrote:
On Saturday, June 19, 2021, Andrew Randrianasulu <[email protected]> wrote:
On Saturday, June 19, 2021, Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
What I know 72, 90, and 144 are not standard frame rates. I don't remember for 100 fps, seems to me not.
ST 12-3:2016 - SMPTE Standard - Time Code for High Frame Rate Signals and Formatting in the Ancillary Data Space
Abstract:This standard specifies time code formats with the frame counts 72, 96, 100 and 120 and the frame count 120 with drop-frame compensation. This standard also specifies a transmission format for conveyance of the time code and frame count in the ancillary data space of serial digital interfaces.
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7438725
but try to get also all pdfs from
https://www.smpte.org/free-standards-and-publications
while you can.. downloading pdfs from tbis site seems to fail me probably due to my location (may be i have them on my main machine, but my machine is 1700km away and offline)
additionally this camera apparently can record at 90 (and up to 200) fps
https://www.arri.com/en/learn-help/learn-help-camera-system/ frequently-asked-questions/alexa-mini-lf-faq#accordion-83760
timecode library readme says: LibTC is a C-coded library for SMPTE / EBU timecode handling, display, conversion and calculation. It is based upon the SMPTE ST 12-1 standard (formally SMPTE 12M) and the SMPTE ST 12-3 for HFR. Those define the following rates : 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 30, 47.95, 48, 50, 59.94, 60, 72, 96, 100 and 120 frames per second with the support for drop-frame compensation with 29.97 and 59.94 rates. === https://github.com/agfline/tcCoca but again, even if today cameras outputting those high frame rates are costly - in decade or so they might find their ways down to less wealthy filmmakers, and just dropping 30 out of 90 frames every second is hardly good idea... may be specific tooltip for this field / list explaining situation will be good idea? if of course such tooltip by itself will be not annoying in normal operation) I tend to see this dropdown list more as convience of that is possible, with New project/format presets being more rigid (by necessarity!)
I think only standard frame rates should be taken into consideration by Cinelerra-GG, otherwise what is a standard for? If an User uses a no standard frame rate She/He may have problem to play it somewhere. If You, like me, think that Cinelerra-GG is a professional program (I would say mostly Prosumer) only the standard frame rate should be there to avoid future/next problem with users (and broadcast). And could it happen for Video/Audio sync? IMHO, all of you can make a screencast with screen recorder at any (?) frame rate you want but when you use a NLE the Format Project should use the standard frame rates. What I know Cinelerra-GG may work with any source frame rate but the Project Format should be conformed to standards. The check on the frame rate that Cinelerra-GG performs are just for that. Sorry if I think so.
I would like to know by Pierre, Sam, RafaMar and other Professionl Video Editor what they think about it.
Thanks! IgorBeg
Il 18/06/2021 15:46, Andrea paz via Cin ha scritto:
cool! Did you tried to import resulted files back into Cingg and try to proxy them?)
Rendered again at 144 fps ==> OK; closed CinGG; start CinGG ; load the file mp4 at 144 fps (1080p) ==> OK Proxy a 1/2 default (mpeg) ==> error:
int FFMPEG::open_encoder(const char*, const char*): check_frame_rate failed /home/paz/video_editing/prova/CinGG-std-test.proxy2-mp4.mpeg proxy: failed=1 canceled=0 int ProxyRender::create_needed_proxies(int): Error making proxy. proxy: failed=0 canceled=0
(The proxies are 2 because in the timeline I had created a clip and then brought it back into the timeline as a nested clip, appended to the previous edit.)
Created a proxy in mov.mov (1/2) ==> OK Done various editing with proxy/original ==> OK Deleted the proxy ==> OK
I don't know of any commercial cinema or television network that shows productions at more than 60 frames per second. Yes, I have worked in the past with cameras that could run up to 2000 frames per second and nowadays I imagine there are cameras that can run even faster than that. But those blazing fast speeds were always intended to create slow motion in a normal broadcast at 24 (cinema) or 29.97 (NTSC television) frames per second. I suppose it's possible that those working in special effects or animation may eventually want to maintain a high frame rate throughout their production process. Likewise, it is possible that the scientific community or museums and other special facilities that present non-standard video works may decide to use much higher frame rates than those used in film or television. A sector that was developing a lot before COVID... was the video game competitions in front of large audiences, in big auditoriums equipped with giant screens. Can we imagine that they will eventually want to broadcast image montages at the same high speed as those of the games in competition? I think having the ability to render at high bitrates is a good thing for Cinelerra-GG. But renders that deviate from the usual broadcast possibilities should be clearly marked or classified. Pierre Le 21-06-19 à 04 h 05, Igor BEGHETTO via Cin a écrit :
What I know 72, 90, and 144 are not standard frame rates. I don't remember for 100 fps, seems to me not. I think only standard frame rates should be taken into consideration by Cinelerra-GG, otherwise what is a standard for? If an User uses a no standard frame rate She/He may have problem to play it somewhere. If You, like me, think that Cinelerra-GG is a professional program (I would say mostly Prosumer) only the standard frame rate should be there to avoid future/next problem with users (and broadcast). And could it happen for Video/Audio sync? IMHO, all of you can make a screencast with screen recorder at any (?) frame rate you want but when you use a NLE the Format Project should use the standard frame rates. What I know Cinelerra-GG may work with any source frame rate but the Project Format should be conformed to standards. The check on the frame rate that Cinelerra-GG performs are just for that. Sorry if I think so.
I would like to know by Pierre, Sam, RafaMar and other Professionl Video Editor what they think about it.
Thanks! IgorBeg
Il 18/06/2021 15:46, Andrea paz via Cin ha scritto:
cool! Did you tried to import resulted files back into Cingg and try to proxy them?) Rendered again at 144 fps ==> OK; closed CinGG; start CinGG ; load the file mp4 at 144 fps (1080p) ==> OK Proxy a 1/2 default (mpeg) ==> error:
int FFMPEG::open_encoder(const char*, const char*): check_frame_rate failed /home/paz/video_editing/prova/CinGG-std-test.proxy2-mp4.mpeg proxy: failed=1 canceled=0 int ProxyRender::create_needed_proxies(int): Error making proxy. proxy: failed=0 canceled=0
(The proxies are 2 because in the timeline I had created a clip and then brought it back into the timeline as a nested clip, appended to the previous edit.)
Created a proxy in mov.mov (1/2) ==> OK Done various editing with proxy/original ==> OK Deleted the proxy ==> OK
"If an User uses a no standard frame rate She/He may have problem to play it somewhere." It's not the job of developer's to "protect from a what if". respectfully that is straw man. "If You, like me, think that Cinelerra-GG is a professional program ..." No I don't think of it that way. And the cinelerra website itself *IS* advertising to "novice" users. https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/about-cinelerra-gg/ First paragraph: "However, with only a little bit of introduction, even a novice will be able to create simple artful videos." "IMHO, all of you can make a screencast with screen recorder at any (?) frame rate you want but when you use a NLE the Format Project should use the standard frame rates." Now you're imposing the use case of free software. Reminds me of the elitest gnome dev's but I digress. Look, at the end of the day, this is a "NOTHING BURGER". 1. Screencasters such as OBS record using FFMpeg 2. The video from cin gg is rendered using FFMpeg. 3. FFMpeg is designed to this. It's working for me here even with nVidia CUDA as well. I'm even able to output ffmpeg raw yuv and pipe it to ffmpeg binary and no issues. While 90, or 144 may not be standard in your industry as a "Pro". What if a "Pro" like yourself is hired to work for someone at Twitch. Guess what, you would be given source material well past the norm's you state. If a linux gamer, who games at 240 hz on *their* pc wants to use Cinelerra to edit game footage at 144hz on their pc, why not allow them? FFmpeg can handle it. Shotcut, Kdenlive do it already. The only reason YT uses 60 FPS is, because they have not gotten around to upping the FPS. HTML5 can handle way above that. I think it better to be forward thinking, than impose standards of one industry only. And higher framerate camera's will eventually reduce in price that they are the norm as well. Else, I guess we should simply change Cinelerra's site to say "go use someone else" , or close the doors. On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 4:06 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
What I know 72, 90, and 144 are not standard frame rates. I don't remember for 100 fps, seems to me not. I think only standard frame rates should be taken into consideration by Cinelerra-GG, otherwise what is a standard for? If an User uses a no standard frame rate She/He may have problem to play it somewhere. If You, like me, think that Cinelerra-GG is a professional program (I would say mostly Prosumer) only the standard frame rate should be there to avoid future/next problem with users (and broadcast). And could it happen for Video/Audio sync? IMHO, all of you can make a screencast with screen recorder at any (?) frame rate you want but when you use a NLE the Format Project should use the standard frame rates. What I know Cinelerra-GG may work with any source frame rate but the Project Format should be conformed to standards. The check on the frame rate that Cinelerra-GG performs are just for that. Sorry if I think so.
I would like to know by Pierre, Sam, RafaMar and other Professionl Video Editor what they think about it.
Thanks! IgorBeg
Il 18/06/2021 15:46, Andrea paz via Cin ha scritto:
cool! Did you tried to import resulted files back into Cingg and try to proxy them?)
Rendered again at 144 fps ==> OK; closed CinGG; start CinGG ; load the file mp4 at 144 fps (1080p) ==> OK Proxy a 1/2 default (mpeg) ==> error:
int FFMPEG::open_encoder(const char*, const char*): check_frame_rate failed /home/paz/video_editing/prova/CinGG-std-test.proxy2-mp4.mpeg proxy: failed=1 canceled=0 int ProxyRender::create_needed_proxies(int): Error making proxy. proxy: failed=0 canceled=0
(The proxies are 2 because in the timeline I had created a clip and then brought it back into the timeline as a nested clip, appended to the previous edit.)
Created a proxy in mov.mov (1/2) ==> OK Done various editing with proxy/original ==> OK Deleted the proxy ==> OK
-- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Interesting discussion so far -- it has been awhile since any controversy has arisen! IgorBeg -- I understand your point and the desire to keep things more standard. Pierre -- thanks for your professional input, as always. Andrew -- thanks for all of the references as I was really dubious about 72 as it is just a weird number. Gorge -- my goal is to make Cinelerra usable for anyone and remove limitations if it can be easily done which Andrew did nicely. There are already enough things that Cinelerra can not do and never will be able to. Since most users will not scroll down in the Format "frame rate" options, they won't even know the higher rates are there so hopefully Igor can live with this. ...Phyllis On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 1:02 PM gorge rankin via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
"If an User uses a no standard frame rate She/He may have problem to play it somewhere." It's not the job of developer's to "protect from a what if". respectfully that is straw man.
"If You, like me, think that Cinelerra-GG is a professional program ..." No I don't think of it that way. And the cinelerra website itself *IS* advertising to "novice" users. https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/about-cinelerra-gg/ First paragraph: "However, with only a little bit of introduction, even a novice will be able to create simple artful videos."
"IMHO, all of you can make a screencast with screen recorder at any (?) frame rate you want but when you use a NLE the Format Project should use the standard frame rates." Now you're imposing the use case of free software. Reminds me of the elitest gnome dev's but I digress.
Look, at the end of the day, this is a "NOTHING BURGER". 1. Screencasters such as OBS record using FFMpeg 2. The video from cin gg is rendered using FFMpeg. 3. FFMpeg is designed to this.
It's working for me here even with nVidia CUDA as well. I'm even able to output ffmpeg raw yuv and pipe it to ffmpeg binary and no issues.
While 90, or 144 may not be standard in your industry as a "Pro". What if a "Pro" like yourself is hired to work for someone at Twitch. Guess what, you would be given source material well past the norm's you state.
If a linux gamer, who games at 240 hz on *their* pc wants to use Cinelerra to edit game footage at 144hz on their pc, why not allow them? FFmpeg can handle it. Shotcut, Kdenlive do it already.
The only reason YT uses 60 FPS is, because they have not gotten around to upping the FPS. HTML5 can handle way above that.
I think it better to be forward thinking, than impose standards of one industry only. And higher framerate camera's will eventually reduce in price that they are the norm as well.
Else, I guess we should simply change Cinelerra's site to say "go use someone else" , or close the doors.
On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 4:06 AM Igor BEGHETTO via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
What I know 72, 90, and 144 are not standard frame rates. I don't remember for 100 fps, seems to me not. I think only standard frame rates should be taken into consideration by Cinelerra-GG, otherwise what is a standard for? If an User uses a no standard frame rate She/He may have problem to play it somewhere. If You, like me, think that Cinelerra-GG is a professional program (I would say mostly Prosumer) only the standard frame rate should be there to avoid future/next problem with users (and broadcast). And could it happen for Video/Audio sync? IMHO, all of you can make a screencast with screen recorder at any (?) frame rate you want but when you use a NLE the Format Project should use the standard frame rates. What I know Cinelerra-GG may work with any source frame rate but the Project Format should be conformed to standards. The check on the frame rate that Cinelerra-GG performs are just for that. Sorry if I think so.
I would like to know by Pierre, Sam, RafaMar and other Professionl Video Editor what they think about it.
Thanks! IgorBeg
Il 18/06/2021 15:46, Andrea paz via Cin ha scritto:
cool! Did you tried to import resulted files back into Cingg and try to proxy them?)
Rendered again at 144 fps ==> OK; closed CinGG; start CinGG ; load the file mp4 at 144 fps (1080p) ==> OK Proxy a 1/2 default (mpeg) ==> error:
int FFMPEG::open_encoder(const char*, const char*): check_frame_rate failed /home/paz/video_editing/prova/CinGG-std-test.proxy2-mp4.mpeg proxy: failed=1 canceled=0 int ProxyRender::create_needed_proxies(int): Error making proxy. proxy: failed=0 canceled=0
(The proxies are 2 because in the timeline I had created a clip and then brought it back into the timeline as a nested clip, appended to the previous edit.)
Created a proxy in mov.mov (1/2) ==> OK Done various editing with proxy/original ==> OK Deleted the proxy ==> OK
-- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
-- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Thanks Andrew_R for the links and documentation. Thanks Pierre for your exaustive explain about from a Professional Video Editor's point of view. I don't want to impose any of my choices on others, and I certainly can't stop a developer (or more developers) from changing the code. And, again,I don't know anything about Linux,... I am only an User. I ask myself questions and try to bring my doubts here. - Can any coded support any frame rate (without any problems)? If not, can the developer avoid entering "non-standard" frame rates in the drop-down menu? - Can the developer(s) help the user not to make "non-standard" choices in order not to have playback problems on some media device? Then, if an user manually changes the frame rate it means that he knows what he may expect or not. These considerations of mine are always valid for any possible change and do not want to irritate the sensitivity of anyone. Phyllis, you can do what is best for the community not for a single User like me. Thank you! IgorBeg Il 19/06/2021 21:41, Phyllis Smith via Cin ha scritto:
Interesting discussion so far -- it has been awhile since any controversy has arisen!
IgorBeg -- I understand your point and the desire to keep things more standard. Pierre -- thanks for your professional input, as always. Andrew -- thanks for all of the references as I was really dubious about 72 as it is just a weird number. Gorge -- my goal is to make Cinelerra usable for anyone and remove limitations if it can be easily done which Andrew did nicely. There are already enough things that Cinelerra can not do and never will be able to.
Since most users will not scroll down in the Format "frame rate" options, they won't even know the higher rates are there so hopefully Igor can live with this. ...Phyllis
IgorBeg, I just wanted to pass along what MatN emailed to me (he is overwhelmed with projects right now so is having to step back, but I am sure he would not mind me passing this along). *Quote from MatN: *"I was actually playing with the new multi-fps options (very good additions, I think), but did not get very far yet." The below are a good set of questions. I think the majority of casual users, like me, will just leave the Settings->Format as is. - Can any coded support any frame rate (without any problems)? If not,
can the developer avoid entering "non-standard" frame rates in the drop-down menu? - Can the developer(s) help the user not to make "non-standard" choices in order not to have playback problems on some media device? Then, if an user manually changes the frame rate it means that he knows what he may expect or not.
These considerations of mine are always valid for any possible change and do not want to irritate the sensitivity of anyone.
participants (6)
-
Andrea paz -
Andrew Randrianasulu -
gorge rankin -
Igor BEGHETTO -
Phyllis Smith -
Pierre autourduglobe