[Cin] "Competitors" or do we want to stay alive?

[Phyllis Smith]

Yes, thanks for a good summary.  I think Cinelerra has its place and still
serves as a learning tool also..
If the Olive NLE Matt had corroborated with CinGG, he would have been
welcome and could have made major changes to update it instead of trying to
write from scratch.


On Fri, Apr 4, 2025 at 4:06 AM Andrew Randrianasulu via Cin <
cin at lists.cinelerra-gg.org> wrote:

> Sorry for being frustrated lately.
>
> Realities of all this "modern development" vs me tend to be not in favor
> of our project.
>
> I looked up two "other" projects in video editing.
>
> MLT is well-known and going on for nearly two decades.
>
> In this year release notes we see:
>
> https://github.com/mltframework/mlt/releases
>
>
> =====
>
> https://github.com/mltframework/mlt/releases/tag/v7.30.0
>
>
> Added support for mlt_image_yuv420p10, mlt_image_yuv444p10, and
> mlt_image_yuv422p16 in avfilter, swscale, and rescale filters.
> This facilitates using these pixel formats end-to-end when using only
> FFmpeg producers, certain avfilters, and avformat consumer. This means it
> is possible to do 10-bit end-to-end on the CPU when being careful to select
> compatible components and options to avoid conversions. One can
> pass-through HDR; however, you must set the color_trc and pix_fmt
> properties on the avformat consumer (see ffmpeg -h full for these
> values). The avformat consumer automatically converts MLT colorspace
> (integer value) to FFmpeg's colorspace and color_primaries (unless
> explicit) options.
>
> ====
>
> I take this as "floating point pipeline still not here".
>
> Olive branch is even more depressing:
>
> https://github.com/olive-editor/olive/issues
>
> Last non-CI commit was in ... september 2023?
>
> May be developing moved somewhere, but this mean all exiting new bugs and
> state of being incomplete for  few more years, given that even with most of
> hard work done by OpenGL, OCIO, ffmpeg etc remaining NLE core is not that
> simple, as it turned out to be.
>
> Natron does not do audio, as far as I know, and also hanging on a thread
> (single developer).
>
> Blender is a Big Shot now, with predictably big requirements both in
> software (try to build it on Slackware) and in hardware. Driven by higher
> end!
>
> And whole "Oh lol X is deprecated, everyone rewrite themselves to
> Wayland"  push. I bet there might be way to resistance say Intel's or
> Nvidia "HDR on X" proposals in Xwayland but who will do all this work for
> single application? It took Valve's money effectively to get anything at
> all done in this area.
>
> https://www.phoronix.com/news/X11-DeepColor-Visual-RFC
>
> from 2017 ....
>
>
> https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/wayland-devel/2017-December/036403.html
>
> It took whole 8 years to get into "usable in mpv" state, and producing
> video usually have higher demands than playing back.
>
> I am fairly sure someone will write something in Rust (so it will break in
> 6 months time because Rust is for Big D Developers who have no problems
> with such churn) or c++ 25 because c+11 is too archaic and all new courses
> are about $latest (double meaning of $ here).
>
> Again, I do not think this is only individual developers fault, just more
> complex issue with constant stream of *new*  hardware we supposed to fix in
> field by writing software, somehow (HDR displays are all or nothing, so
> HD(R), SD and GUI all must be mixed on host side). And general "culture" of
> individualism (because Silicon Valley, bebe!)  and effectively social
> darwinism (where are XDTV and libquicktime? killed by constant API churn
> ....).
>
> I see no escape from this, at larger scale. And this makes me even more
> frustrated.
>
> cc ffmpeg-user/libav user because otherwise no one from "outside" will
> ever read this.
> --
> Cin mailing list
> Cin at lists.cinelerra-gg.org
> https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
>
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