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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Den 10.02.2023 17:28, skrev Andrew
Randrianasulu:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+rFky5ctkg6LSotC6buwp632-c5758mndDWsMDNayq2jRL2Lg@mail.gmail.com">
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">пт, 10 февр. 2023 г.,
15:44 Terje J. Hanssen <<a
href="mailto:terjejhanssen@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">terjejhanssen@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div> <br>
<br>
<div>Den 10.02.2023 04:03, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div><br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">пт, 10 февр.
2023 г., 04:37 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin <<a
href="mailto:cin@lists.cinelerra-gg.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cin@lists.cinelerra-gg.org</a>>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div> We have some threads this month
discussing the performance of UVC HDMI-USB3
Vide Capture stics/dongles or devices.<br>
If technical specs are available, sadly
often deficient, they may manage 422 chroma
subsampling, but limited to 8-bit "Deep
color" (4KVC00) or "YUY2" (ms2130) <br>
<br>
1. To repeate the illustrative article 8-Bit
vs 10-Bit Video Color Explained
(millions/banding vs billion shades): <br>
<a
href="https://fujifilm-x.com/en-us/series/the-filmmakers-handbook/8-bit-or-10-bit-video-color-explained/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://fujifilm-x.com/en-us/series/the-filmmakers-handbook/8-bit-or-10-bit-video-color-explained/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
2. In a couple of learn.microsoft articles,
10- and 16-bit YUV Video Formats are
recommended for capturing, processing, and
displaying video, while 8-bit YUV color
formats that are recommended for video
rendering. To extract and learn the most
relevant YUV formats in this context from
the table<br>
<a
href="https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/medfound/10-bit-and-16-bit-yuv-video-formats#preferred-yuv-formats"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/medfound/10-bit-and-16-bit-yuv-video-formats#preferred-yuv-formats</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote><font face="Courier New,
Courier, monospace">YUY2 4:2:2
Packed 8 bits pr channel</font><br>
<font face="Courier New, Courier,
monospace">Y210 4:2:2 Packed
10</font><br>
<font face="Courier New, Courier,
monospace">NV12 4:2:0 Planar
8</font><br>
<font face="Courier New, Courier,
monospace">P010 4:2:0 Planar
10</font><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
3. So I found an interesting discussion on
the Digital Photography Review forum: <br>
Cheapest (and decent) way to record 10 bits
HDMI on Windows? <br>
<a
href="https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4562209"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4562209</a><br>
<br>
Extract here an interesting section from the
first reply of Mar 19, 2021: <br>
<blockquote>It almost looks like 10-bit may
not be part of the UVC specs unless the
device does hardware H.264 or HEVC
decoding, there are no 10-bit color
formats that appear in <a
href="https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/tree/drivers/media/usb/uvc/uvcvideo.h?h=v5.11.7"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
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noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/tree/drivers/media/usb/uvc/uvcvideo.h?h=v5.11.7</a>
such as p010, and I would expect that if
the UVC spec supported p010 video it would
have appeared in the Linux kernel by now.<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Isn't such question more for
Maintainer?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">"USB VIDEO CLASS</div>
<pre><code><pre>M: Laurent Pinchart <<a href="mailto:laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com</a>>
L: <a href="mailto:linux-media@vger.kernel.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">linux-media@vger.kernel.org</a>
S: Maintained
W: <a href="http://www.ideasonboard.org/uvc/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.ideasonboard.org/uvc/</a>
T: git git://<a href="http://linuxtv.org/media_tree.git" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">linuxtv.org/media_tree.git</a>
F: drivers/media/usb/uvc/
F: include/uapi/linux/uvcvideo.h
</pre></code></pre>
<div dir="auto">"</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">from <a
href="https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/tree/MAINTAINERS"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/tree/MAINTAINERS</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I looked at (hopefully) uvc spec,
but mostly for interlace info</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://www.spinelelectronics.com/pdf/UVC%25201.5%2520Class%2520specification.pdf"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.spinelelectronics.com/pdf/UVC%25201.5%2520Class%2520specification.pdf</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I'll look for guid info some more..</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<blockquote> </blockquote>
If someone can confirm this is the case also
today, we don't need to search for cheap or
inexpensive HDMI-USB3 Video capture
stick/dongles with 10-bit 422 output
support.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
What I meant to say is that (my thought ) 8-bit YUY2
output support seems to be the current limit of
HDMI-USB3 Video Capture sticks like in the new ms2130.<br>
I saw that the (previous) USB2 model that still was
announced in parallell didn't support YUY2. But I expect
this is just a question of time as the chip technology
evolves - so maybe the next model and UVC then get
10-bit support(?)<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">may be, I tried to fwd Laurent's answer to both
cin list and linux-media, just kernel list reject html
quotation (?) mobile gmail does by default.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Thanks, you have been busy :)<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+rFky5ctkg6LSotC6buwp632-c5758mndDWsMDNayq2jRL2Lg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div> <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div> Down In the same thread also some
high-priced UVC compliant devices are
mentioned, but they tend to support 10-bit
on HDMI input and so downscale it to 8-bit
on USB3 output.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Apparently hacked Cx driver can
output 16 bits as ADC, but then we have question
of feeding it with good enough signal (vhs-decode
just vampires into VCR guts.)</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Is any real external vhs (ish)
sources worth 10 bits path?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
There have been discussions about that. VHS/Video8 is
low-end composite video, while S-Video (2) and Component
Video (3) are better. But cheap ADC to HDMI adapters,
sadly also often with missing technical specs, most
probably at best output 8-bit(?) At least here 8-bit
YUY2 ms2130 may fit well.<br>
Digital cameras with direct HDMI output on the other
hand may utilize 10-bit.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
By the way, I'll return the unuseable Hama HDMI to USB3 capture
stick, and have ordered a new ms2130. To halph the price I expect
the latter works twice as well :)<br>
<div class="order-detail-item-track">
<div class="order-detail-item-track-eta">
<div class="order-detail-item-track-eta-text"
data-pl="order_detail_item_track_eta_text">Estimated delivery
date by the end of next month, though. Then also the companion
ADC adapter should have arrieved.<br>
<br>
In the meantme I'll have work enough to continue and fullfill
the rest of my S-video to DV recorder path.<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+rFky5ctkg6LSotC6buwp632-c5758mndDWsMDNayq2jRL2Lg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">yeah .. sdi-usb3 probably can face 10-bit signal
at receiving end too .... but so far it seems video
enthusiasts (ones who buy 400$+ gear + all additional devices)
and Linux enthusiasts (who like to punch some code in) not
crossed each other paths, at least in public ....</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Sooner or later I'll also give the BMD 10-bit path: Analog to SDI
miniconverter + Hyperdeck shuttle 2, another try, due to the
expected firmware issue a year ago<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=153772">https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=153772</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+rFky5ctkg6LSotC6buwp632-c5758mndDWsMDNayq2jRL2Lg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div> <br>
As a generic reference, I compare this with "The
Digitization of VHS Videotapes – Technical Bulletin 31<br>
<blockquote>Digitization Set-up Two with an external
capture device <br>
<a
href="https://www.canada.ca/en/conservation-institute/services/conservation-preservation-publications/technical-bulletins/digitization-vhs-video-tapes.html#a8b"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.canada.ca/en/conservation-institute/services/conservation-preservation-publications/technical-bulletins/digitization-vhs-video-tapes.html#a8b</a><br>
while Set-up _Three is Digitization with an internal
(PCIe) capture card<br>
<a
href="https://www.canada.ca/en/conservation-institute/services/conservation-preservation-publications/technical-bulletins/digitization-vhs-video-tapes.html#a8c"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.canada.ca/en/conservation-institute/services/conservation-preservation-publications/technical-bulletins/digitization-vhs-video-tapes.html#a8c</a><br>
</blockquote>
The Digitization procedure/Video compressor section
discuss 10-bit vs 8-bit <br>
<blockquote><a
href="https://www.canada.ca/en/conservation-institute/services/conservation-preservation-publications/technical-bulletins/digitization-vhs-video-tapes.html#a8c3"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.canada.ca/en/conservation-institute/services/conservation-preservation-publications/technical-bulletins/digitization-vhs-video-tapes.html#a8c3</a><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>Using 10-bit is advocated by many, although
several institutions also use 8-bit (see Appendix B).
It is debatable whether 10-bit is required for VHS
video but some believe that because of VHS’s
shortcomings in the area of resolution, luminance and
colour range, capturing the finer details becomes more
important.Footnote 29 It is believed that capturing at
higher quality will ultimately produce a better result
if significant manipulation occurs, such as editing of
files, and a better result if future compression of
the file is necessary.<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">thanks!</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<blockquote> </blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://github.com/happycube/cxadc-linux3"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/happycube/cxadc-linux3</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">===</div>
<div dir="auto">
<p dir="auto">cxadc is an alternative Linux driver
for the Conexant CX2388x series of video
decoder/encoder chips used on many PCI TV tuner
and capture cards.</p>
<p dir="auto"><strong>Note!</strong> cx23885 and
cx23888 are incompatible chips.</p>
<p dir="auto">The new driver configures the
CX2388x to capture in its raw output mode in
8-bit or 16-bit unsigned samples from the video
input ports, allowing these cards to be used as
a low-cost 28-54Mhz 10bit ADC for SDR and
similar applications.</p>
<p dir="auto"><br>
</p>
<p dir="auto">====</p>
<p dir="auto"><br>
</p>
<p dir="auto">vhs-decode wiki has some ffmpeg
command encoding raw captures into prores 10bit
file</p>
<p dir="auto"><br>
</p>
<p dir="auto"><a
href="https://github.com/oyvindln/vhs-decode"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/oyvindln/vhs-decode</a></p>
<p dir="auto"><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Very interesting reading. I admit I have never heard
about "vhs-decode" before and do not yet have an
overview of what it includes.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">A lot of python :)</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I tried to compile it on termux, and some python
compiler component (numba) died on install, saying my python
too new!</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">see also my forwarded mail from project's github</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">====</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">╰─> [8 lines of output]
Traceback (most recent call last):
File
"<string>", line 2, in <module>
File
"<pip-setuptools-caller>", line 34, in <module>
File
"/data/data/com.termux/files/usr/tmp/pip-install-2ef2atl2/numba_c8a210c3a25440f4b4b4a45449fcfb73/setup.py",
line 51, in <module>
_guard_py_ver()</div>
<div dir="auto"> File
"/data/data/com.termux/files/usr/tmp/pip-install-2ef2atl2/numba_c8a210c3a25440f4b4b4a45449fcfb73/setup.py",
line 48, in _guard_py_ver</div>
<div dir="auto"> raise
RuntimeError(msg.format(cur_py, min_py, max_py))
RuntimeError: Cannot install on
Python version 3.11.2; only versions >=3.7,<3.11 are
supported</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">=====</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">so VM with debian, probably ....</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div> <br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">
<p dir="auto">===<br>
</p>
<p dir="auto">VHS-Decode produces two timebase
corrected 16-bit <code>GREY16</code> headerless
files separated into chroma/luma composite video
signals in the <code>.tbc</code> format
alongside <code>.json</code> and <code>.log</code>
files, usable with the LD-Decode family of tools
ld-analyse, ld-process-vbi, ld-process-vits and
ld-dropout-correct.</p>
<p dir="auto"> </p>
<p dir="auto">The gen chroma scrips will use
decoded .tbc files and generate standard video
files by default a lossless, interlaced top
field first and high-bitrate (roughly 70-100
Mb/s) FFV1 codec video which, which although
ideal for archival and further processing.</p>
<p dir="auto"><br>
</p>
<p dir="auto">For editing due to lack of support
of FFV1 and sharing online without
de-interlacing is not supported properly, as
such the two commands are provided below to make
suitable files for this use.</p>
<p dir="auto">Both commands will automatically use
the last file generated as the input.</p>
<p dir="auto">For editors this transcodes an
FFV1/V210 output to a "<em>near complient</em>"
interlaced ProRes HQ file:</p>
<div dir="auto">
<pre><code>ffmpeg -hide_banner -i "$1.mkv" -vf setfield=tff -flags +ilme+ildct -c:v prores -profile:v 3 -vendor apl0 -bits_per_mb 8000 -quant_mat hq -mbs_per_slice 8 -pixel_format yuv422p10lep -color_range tv -color_primaries bt709 -color_trc bt709 -colorspace bt709 -c:a s24le -vf setdar=4/3,setfield=tff "$1_ProResHQ.mov"
</code></pre>
</div>
<p dir="auto">For basic online sharing you can use
this command to convert the FFV1 output to a
de-interlaced lossy upscaled MP4:</p>
<p dir="auto"> </p>
<div dir="auto">
<pre><code>ffmpeg -hide_banner -i "$1.mkv" -vf scale=in_color_matrix=bt601:out_color_matrix=bt709:1440x1080,bwdif=1:0:0 -c:v libx264 -preset veryslow -b:v 15M -maxrate 15M -bufsize 8M -pixel_format yuv420p -color_primaries bt709 -color_trc bt709 -colorspace bt709 -aspect 4:3 -c:a libopus -b:a 192k -strict -2 -movflags +faststart -y "$1_1440x1080_lossy.mp4"
</code></pre>
</div>
<p dir="auto">====</p>
<p dir="auto"><br>
</p>
<p dir="auto">Maaay be we still can use pci-e
capture card with normal inputs, just process
raw captures to see if there any difference
between 8 and 10 bit?</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I think I don't mess with internal proprietary PCIe
capture cards anymore. I had once a Pinnacle DV500/DVD
system for Windows 98 (or was it 95).</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">yeah, unfortunately they all more or less
proprietary - firmware is closed-source, anf for some nice in
overview chips you can't even get spec easily</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a
href="http://en.macrosilicon.com/info.asp?base_id=2&third_id=45"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://en.macrosilicon.com/info.asp?base_id=2&third_id=45</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">ms1824 looks interesting (even if *ten* channels
of input surely overkill) with 16 bit yuv 4.2.2 output listed
in params, but who will make card or box around it?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Custom electronics for video tend to cost much
more if they only done in small batches .... even if you are
lucky to have engineer(s) with some free time!</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I looked again at <a
href="https://hdmi2usb.tv/home/" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://hdmi2usb.tv/home/</a>
but no, no miracles here too .... "</div>
<h3>What resolutions are supported?</h3>
<p>The firmware is currently targeted at supporting two
operating resolutions;</p>
<ul>
<li>
<p>16:9 - 720p60 mode</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>4:3 - 1024x768@60Hz</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p>Other resolutions can be used but are less tested and may not
work." </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>usb 2.0 ....</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>So even if in theory open hardware is better in practice lack
of engineers (with access to components and debug equipment)
makes projects look .... underdeveloped.</p>
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