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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Den 08.12.2023 12:50, skrev Andrew
Randrianasulu:<br>
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cite="mid:CA+rFky7q_uz2zejpdOFR6ZLEkr0Fz+YVamQAEkmKHSnMfJBUzA@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">пт, 8 дек. 2023 г., 13:57
Andrew Randrianasulu <<a
href="mailto:randrianasulu@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">randrianasulu@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">пт, 8 дек. 2023
г., 13:37 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin <<a
href="mailto:cin@lists.cinelerra-gg.org"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cin@lists.cinelerra-gg.org</a>>:<br>
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style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div>Den 03.12.2023 22:29, skrev Terje J.
Hanssen:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite"> Already touched this
topic barely in another thread<br>
<a
href="https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/pipermail/cin/2023-December/007346.html"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/pipermail/cin/2023-December/007346.html</a><br>
<br>
But so many SW and HW pieces are mentioned
around, it is almost a full-time reading and
study:<br>
VAAPI, MESA, VULKAN, Intel Quick Sync Video
etc......<br>
<br>
I realize my aging hardware which is fast
enough for other tasks, needs some "AV1
upgrade", if possible.<br>
<br>
But first I wonder, what is expected possible
to do (obtain) with AV1 de-/encoding on my
existing 64bit hardware:<br>
<br>
<blockquote><font face="monospace">1) laptop
2018: Dell XPS 13-9370: quad core i7-8550U
CPU (8. gen Kabylake) and Intel UHD
Graphics</font><br>
<br>
<font face="monospace">2) WS infinity: MSI
Z170A mobo: quad core i7-6700K CPU (6.
gen Skylake), NVIDIA GeForce GT-730
graphics</font><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
A budget friendly first "AV1 HW upgrade" of
the workstation 2) if possible, would be to
add a new GPU as Intel Arc A380.<br>
But the question is if this will work at all
on that much older (2015) Skylake platform
with i7-6700K CPU?<br>
I've seen CPU bottlenecks has been mentioned
and that Arc A380 is targeted at newer
generations CPU ... <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Extracted from the first wikipedia reference
below about Intel Alchemist GPUs:
<ul>
<li>Featuring 8 Xe-cores, the<b> A380 supports
PCI Express 4.0</b> and has a total board
power (TBP) of 75W. The graphics card is
equipped with 6GB GDDR6 memory and a
graphics memory interface of 96 bits,
providing a memory bandwidth of 186GB/s.</li>
<li>Bus interface A380: PCIe 4.0 x8
and for >=A580: PCIe 4.0 x16 </li>
</ul>
That is, the keyword here seems to be PCIe 4.0
bus speed as a requirement to utilize the Arc
A380 GPU for HWA AV1 encoding (maybe also for
other GPUs?)<br>
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<div dir="auto">well, despite so much time spend looking
at dev process for mesa3d I still do not know full
details and media encoder process. But isn't it like
putting uncompressed frame in vram (as long as you
have enough of it - so probably n raw frames between
keyframe ideally?) let media engine chw on it, pull
resulting compressed bitstream out of vram via
pci-express?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">So I speculate pcie bandwidth in itself
will only matter if you compress both big frame size
and long keyframes, so dma engine on card must
constantly pump new raw frame data via bus.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I saw some mention of big (resizeable)
BAR as requirement for good performance, but
opengl/vulkan IMO a bit different because they send
often big amount of tiny objects (vertices) via bus
for each frame. But may be default 256 Mb in size bar
feels a bit small for sending like 1 second of 25 4k
frames (300 mb/s)?</div>
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<br>
Nothing would be better than that A380 does work with older PCIe 3.0
motherboards and CPUs and without too much decrease in performance.<br>
<br>
<br>
I've also extracted from the following two articles:<br>
<blockquote>Intel Arc Desktop Graphics Card Gets Requirement List:
Resizable BAR Enabled & Support on 10th Gen and Above CPUs</blockquote>
<blockquote><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://wccftech.com/intel-arc-desktop-graphics-card-gets-requirement-list-resizable-bar-enabled-support-on-10th-gen-and-above-cpus/">https://wccftech.com/intel-arc-desktop-graphics-card-gets-requirement-list-resizable-bar-enabled-support-on-10th-gen-and-above-cpus/</a><br>
<i>We are supporting Intel platforms with resizable BAR and will
add support for AMD platforms with Smart Access Memory as Intel
Arc graphics cards become available for sale as components.
Motherboard requirement:</i><br>
<ul>
<li>Full-size PCIe 3.0 (or newer) x16 slot</li>
<li>Resizeable BAR</li>
</ul>
<br>
Arc A770 Loses Up to 24 Percent Performance Without Resizable Bar
| Tom's Hardware</blockquote>
<blockquote><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.tomshardware.com/news/arc-a770-loses-25-percent-performance-without-resizable-bar">https://www.tomshardware.com/news/arc-a770-loses-25-percent-performance-without-resizable-bar</a><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<ul>
<li>Arc isn't for older systems.</li>
<li> Intel has revitalized the midrange graphics card market
with the company's latest Arc A770, which will make its way
into the list of best graphics cards. Starting at $329, the
Arc Alchemist graphics card brings GeForce RTX 3060-like
performance to the table with Resizable BAR (ReBAR) enabled,
of course. But, without ReBAR or similar technology like Smart
Access Memory (SAM), it's another story.</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li> With Arc, Intel recommends potential consumers make sure
their systems support ReBAR or SAM. </li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li> In addition to testing ReBAR, TechPowerUp also evaluated
whether the speed of the expansion slot impacts the Arc A770's
performance. As a reminder, the Arc A770 comes with a
conventional PCIe 4.0 x16 interface. However, the tests
revealed that PCIe 3.0 is still plenty for the Arc A770 as
long as ReBAR is enabled. Furthermore, TechPowerUp only
recorded a performance difference of up to 2% between PCIe 3.0
and PCIe 4.0, so ReBAR support is more important than the
expansion slot. Regarding ReBAR, only Intel 10th Generation <a
data-analytics-id="inline-link"
href="https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-comet-lake-s-cores-53-ghz-high-power-better-pricing"
data-before-rewrite-localise="https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-comet-lake-s-cores-53-ghz-high-power-better-pricing"
data-component-tracked="1" class="hawk-link-parsed">Comet
Lake</a>, 11th Generation <a
data-analytics-id="inline-link"
href="https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-11th-gen-rocket-lake-s-specifications-pricing"
data-before-rewrite-localise="https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-11th-gen-rocket-lake-s-specifications-pricing"
data-component-tracked="1" class="hawk-link-parsed">Rocket
Lake</a>, and 12th Generation <a
data-analytics-id="inline-link"
href="https://www.tomshardware.com/features/intel-shares-alder-lake-pricing-specs-and-gaming-performance"
data-before-rewrite-localise="https://www.tomshardware.com/features/intel-shares-alder-lake-pricing-specs-and-gaming-performance"
data-component-tracked="1" class="hawk-link-parsed">Alder
Lake</a> processors support that feature. As for AMD, SAM
support is only present on <a data-analytics-id="inline-link"
href="https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-third-gen-ryzen-7nm-launch-intel-cpu,39449.html"
data-before-rewrite-localise="https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-third-gen-ryzen-7nm-launch-intel-cpu,39449.html"
data-component-tracked="1" class="hawk-link-parsed">Ryzen
3000</a> Zen 2 chips and newer. So while Arc's performance
looks attractive and priced fairly, its requirements
effectively lock out users with older systems. Arc also
demands Windows 10 20H2 or <a data-analytics-id="inline-link"
href="https://www.tomshardware.com/tag/windows-11"
data-auto-tag-linker="true"
data-before-rewrite-localise="https://www.tomshardware.com/tag/windows-11"
data-component-tracked="1" class="hawk-link-parsed">Windows
11</a> as the operating system, so Windows 7 users, who are
reluctant to upgrade, are also out of the picture.</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+rFky7q_uz2zejpdOFR6ZLEkr0Fz+YVamQAEkmKHSnMfJBUzA@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1165048.html?sid=1b9518b86afdcd1fa5e7710f16cd6893"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1165048.html?sid=1b9518b86afdcd1fa5e7710f16cd6893</a><br>
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<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">not exactly about av1 in ffmpeg 6.1 but lists
some components you need for vaapi/qsv encoder on Arc 380 -
also from dmesg resizeable bar support is not essential ?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
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style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">gpus today use their own memory paging
system, so may be this add additional restriction on
how fast you can push frames to them. ....</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Also, windows and Linux drivers might
differ ( I bet most reviews are from windows land).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">May be someone will post linux review of
this particular aspect of Arc graphics, either video
or text ...</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">If this Suse Studio service still works
may be you can compose your own live image with all
components required to test that and walk to some
offline place where you can testdrive new card .... {
If weather feels favourable enough - we have around
-14 C airtemp so I and my dog prefer short dashes
around and back to warm place shortly}</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div> My existing Skylake WS 2) above has PCie 3.0
only.<br>
<br>
PCIe 4.0<br>
<a
href="https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express</a><br>
<a
href="https://www.techreviewer.com/learn-about-tech/what-is-pcie-40/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.techreviewer.com/learn-about-tech/what-is-pcie-40/</a><br>
<br>
Motherboards Support PCIe 4.0<br>
<a
href="https://www.makeuseof.com/best-budget-pcie-4-motherboards/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.makeuseof.com/best-budget-pcie-4-motherboards/</a><br>
<a
href="https://www.techreviewer.com/tech-answers/which-motherboards-support-pcie-40/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.techreviewer.com/tech-answers/which-motherboards-support-pcie-40/</a><br>
<br>
Maybe also information of interest for WS
building will be clarified within a week, when
Intel release their new "Meteor Lake, Core Ultra
mobile processors(?)<br>
<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_Lake"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_Lake</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> <br>
References:<br>
AV1 Encoding on a Budget: The Intel Arc A380
Approach<br>
<a
href="https://medium.com/@contact_45426/av1-encoding-on-a-budget-the-intel-arc-a380-approach-d72367f2f349"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://medium.com/@contact_45426/av1-encoding-on-a-budget-the-intel-arc-a380-approach-d72367f2f349</a><br>
<a
href="https://history-computer.com/intel-arc-a380-full-review-of-intels-entry-level-gpu/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://history-computer.com/intel-arc-a380-full-review-of-intels-entry-level-gpu/</a><br>
<br>
AV1 fixed-function hardware encoder is
included in Alchemist GPUs as part of the
Intel Quick Sync Video core.<br>
<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Arc#Alchemist"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Arc#Alchemist</a><br>
<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV1#Hardware"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV1#Hardware</a><br>
<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video#Hardware_decoding_and_encoding"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video#Hardware_decoding_and_encoding</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</div>
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