<div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">пн, 11 дек. 2023 г., 16:13 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin <<a href="mailto:cin@lists.cinelerra-gg.org">cin@lists.cinelerra-gg.org</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
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<div>Den 08.12.2023 23:56, skrev Terje J.
Hanssen:<br>
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<div>Den 08.12.2023 12:50, skrev Andrew
Randrianasulu:<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">пт, 8 дек. 2023 г.,
13:57 Andrew Randrianasulu <<a href="mailto:randrianasulu@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">randrianasulu@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">пт, 8 дек. 2023
г., 13:37 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin <<a href="mailto:cin@lists.cinelerra-gg.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">cin@lists.cinelerra-gg.org</a>>:<br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div>Den 03.12.2023 22:29, skrev Terje J.
Hanssen:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite"> Already touched this
topic barely in another thread<br>
<a href="https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/pipermail/cin/2023-December/007346.html" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/pipermail/cin/2023-December/007346.html</a><br>
<br>
But so many SW and HW pieces are mentioned
around, it is almost a full-time reading and
study:<br>
VAAPI, MESA, VULKAN, Intel Quick Sync Video
etc......<br>
<br>
I realize my aging hardware which is fast
enough for other tasks, needs some "AV1
upgrade", if possible.<br>
<br>
But first I wonder, what is expected
possible to do (obtain) with AV1
de-/encoding on my existing 64bit hardware:<br>
<br>
<blockquote><font face="monospace">1) laptop
2018: Dell XPS 13-9370: quad core
i7-8550U CPU (8. gen Kabylake) and Intel
UHD Graphics</font><br>
<br>
<font face="monospace">2) WS infinity:
MSI Z170A mobo: quad core i7-6700K CPU
(6. gen Skylake), NVIDIA GeForce GT-730
graphics</font><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
A budget friendly first "AV1 HW upgrade" of
the workstation 2) if possible, would be to
add a new GPU as Intel Arc A380.<br>
But the question is if this will work at all
on that much older (2015) Skylake platform
with i7-6700K CPU?<br>
I've seen CPU bottlenecks has been mentioned
and that Arc A380 is targeted at newer
generations CPU ... <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Extracted from the first wikipedia reference
below about Intel Alchemist GPUs:
<ul>
<li>Featuring 8 Xe-cores, the<b> A380
supports PCI Express 4.0</b> and has a
total board power (TBP) of 75W. The
graphics card is equipped with 6GB GDDR6
memory and a graphics memory interface of
96 bits, providing a memory bandwidth of
186GB/s.</li>
<li>Bus interface A380: PCIe 4.0 x8
and for >=A580: PCIe 4.0 x16 </li>
</ul>
That is, the keyword here seems to be PCIe 4.0
bus speed as a requirement to utilize the Arc
A380 GPU for HWA AV1 encoding (maybe also for
other GPUs?)<br>
</div>
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<div dir="auto">well, despite so much time spend
looking at dev process for mesa3d I still do not
know full details and media encoder process. But
isn't it like putting uncompressed frame in vram (as
long as you have enough of it - so probably n raw
frames between keyframe ideally?) let media engine
chw on it, pull resulting compressed bitstream out
of vram via pci-express?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">So I speculate pcie bandwidth in
itself will only matter if you compress both big
frame size and long keyframes, so dma engine on card
must constantly pump new raw frame data via bus.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I saw some mention of big (resizeable)
BAR as requirement for good performance, but
opengl/vulkan IMO a bit different because they send
often big amount of tiny objects (vertices) via bus
for each frame. But may be default 256 Mb in size
bar feels a bit small for sending like 1 second of
25 4k frames (300 mb/s)?</div>
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<br>
Nothing would be better than that A380 does work with older PCIe
3.0 motherboards and CPUs and without too much decrease in
performance.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Then I got the following reply to my support request from ASRock TSD
regarding<br>
<a href="https://www.asrock.com/Graphics-Card/Intel/Intel%20Arc%20A380%20Challenger%20ITX%206GB%20OC/index.asp" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.asrock.com/Graphics-Card/Intel/Intel%20Arc%20A380%20Challenger%20ITX%206GB%20OC/index.asp</a><br>
<blockquote>Skylake platform does not match the system minimum
requirements.<br>
Please refer to the below link for further information.<br>
<a href="https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000091128/graphics.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000091128/graphics.html</a></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto">well, if you can get card for brief (two weeks?) testing and return if it really does not work - it will be better than leaning on official answer, IMO.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">after all, Intel, like any company tries to sell you a bridge .....</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><blockquote><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> <br>
<br>
I've also extracted from the following two articles:<br>
<blockquote>Intel Arc Desktop Graphics Card Gets Requirement List:
Resizable BAR Enabled & Support on 10th Gen and Above CPUs</blockquote>
<blockquote><a href="https://wccftech.com/intel-arc-desktop-graphics-card-gets-requirement-list-resizable-bar-enabled-support-on-10th-gen-and-above-cpus/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://wccftech.com/intel-arc-desktop-graphics-card-gets-requirement-list-resizable-bar-enabled-support-on-10th-gen-and-above-cpus/</a><br>
<i>We are supporting Intel platforms with resizable BAR and will
add support for AMD platforms with Smart Access Memory as
Intel Arc graphics cards become available for sale as
components. Motherboard requirement:</i><br>
<ul>
<li>Full-size PCIe 3.0 (or newer) x16 slot</li>
<li>Resizeable BAR</li>
</ul>
<br>
Arc A770 Loses Up to 24 Percent Performance Without Resizable
Bar | Tom's Hardware</blockquote>
<blockquote><a href="https://www.tomshardware.com/news/arc-a770-loses-25-percent-performance-without-resizable-bar" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.tomshardware.com/news/arc-a770-loses-25-percent-performance-without-resizable-bar</a><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<ul>
<li>Arc isn't for older systems.</li>
<li> Intel has revitalized the midrange graphics card market
with the company's latest Arc A770, which will make its way
into the list of best graphics cards. Starting at $329, the
Arc Alchemist graphics card brings GeForce RTX 3060-like
performance to the table with Resizable BAR (ReBAR) enabled,
of course. But, without ReBAR or similar technology like
Smart Access Memory (SAM), it's another story.</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li> With Arc, Intel recommends potential consumers make sure
their systems support ReBAR or SAM. </li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li> In addition to testing ReBAR, TechPowerUp also evaluated
whether the speed of the expansion slot impacts the Arc
A770's performance. As a reminder, the Arc A770 comes with a
conventional PCIe 4.0 x16 interface. However, the tests
revealed that PCIe 3.0 is still plenty for the Arc A770 as
long as ReBAR is enabled. Furthermore, TechPowerUp only
recorded a performance difference of up to 2% between PCIe
3.0 and PCIe 4.0, so ReBAR support is more important than
the expansion slot. Regarding ReBAR, only Intel 10th
Generation <a href="https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-comet-lake-s-cores-53-ghz-high-power-better-pricing" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Comet Lake</a>, 11th Generation <a href="https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-11th-gen-rocket-lake-s-specifications-pricing" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Rocket Lake</a>, and 12th
Generation <a href="https://www.tomshardware.com/features/intel-shares-alder-lake-pricing-specs-and-gaming-performance" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Alder Lake</a> processors support
that feature. As for AMD, SAM support is only present on <a href="https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-third-gen-ryzen-7nm-launch-intel-cpu,39449.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Ryzen 3000</a> Zen 2 chips and
newer. So while Arc's performance looks attractive and
priced fairly, its requirements effectively lock out users
with older systems. Arc also demands Windows 10 20H2 or <a href="https://www.tomshardware.com/tag/windows-11" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Windows 11</a> as the operating
system, so Windows 7 users, who are reluctant to upgrade,
are also out of the picture.</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto"><a href="https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1165048.html?sid=1b9518b86afdcd1fa5e7710f16cd6893" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1165048.html?sid=1b9518b86afdcd1fa5e7710f16cd6893</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">not exactly about av1 in ffmpeg 6.1 but lists
some components you need for vaapi/qsv encoder on Arc 380 -
also from dmesg resizeable bar support is not essential ?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
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<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">gpus today use their own memory paging
system, so may be this add additional restriction on
how fast you can push frames to them. ....</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Also, windows and Linux drivers might
differ ( I bet most reviews are from windows land).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">May be someone will post linux review
of this particular aspect of Arc graphics, either
video or text ...</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">If this Suse Studio service still
works may be you can compose your own live image
with all components required to test that and walk
to some offline place where you can testdrive new
card .... { If weather feels favourable enough - we
have around -14 C airtemp so I and my dog prefer
short dashes around and back to warm place shortly}</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div> My existing Skylake WS 2) above has PCie
3.0 only.<br>
<br>
PCIe 4.0<br>
<a href="https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express</a><br>
<a href="https://www.techreviewer.com/learn-about-tech/what-is-pcie-40/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.techreviewer.com/learn-about-tech/what-is-pcie-40/</a><br>
<br>
Motherboards Support PCIe 4.0<br>
<a href="https://www.makeuseof.com/best-budget-pcie-4-motherboards/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.makeuseof.com/best-budget-pcie-4-motherboards/</a><br>
<a href="https://www.techreviewer.com/tech-answers/which-motherboards-support-pcie-40/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.techreviewer.com/tech-answers/which-motherboards-support-pcie-40/</a><br>
<br>
Maybe also information of interest for WS
building will be clarified within a week, when
Intel release their new "Meteor Lake, Core
Ultra mobile processors(?)<br>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_Lake" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_Lake</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> <br>
References:<br>
AV1 Encoding on a Budget: The Intel Arc A380
Approach<br>
<a href="https://medium.com/@contact_45426/av1-encoding-on-a-budget-the-intel-arc-a380-approach-d72367f2f349" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://medium.com/@contact_45426/av1-encoding-on-a-budget-the-intel-arc-a380-approach-d72367f2f349</a><br>
<a href="https://history-computer.com/intel-arc-a380-full-review-of-intels-entry-level-gpu/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://history-computer.com/intel-arc-a380-full-review-of-intels-entry-level-gpu/</a><br>
<br>
AV1 fixed-function hardware encoder is
included in Alchemist GPUs as part of the
Intel Quick Sync Video core.<br>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Arc#Alchemist" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Arc#Alchemist</a><br>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV1#Hardware" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV1#Hardware</a><br>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video#Hardware_decoding_and_encoding" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video#Hardware_decoding_and_encoding</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</div>
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