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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Den 11.12.2023 14:23, skrev Andrew
Randrianasulu:<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">пн, 11 дек. 2023 г., 16:13
Terje J. Hanssen via Cin <<a
href="mailto:cin@lists.cinelerra-gg.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cin@lists.cinelerra-gg.org</a>>:<br>
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<div>Den 08.12.2023 23:56, skrev Terje J. Hanssen:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> <br>
<br>
<div>Den 08.12.2023 12:50, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu:<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">пт, 8 дек.
2023 г., 13:57 Andrew Randrianasulu <<a
href="mailto:randrianasulu@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">randrianasulu@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">пт,
8 дек. 2023 г., 13:37 Terje J.
Hanssen via Cin <<a
href="mailto:cin@lists.cinelerra-gg.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
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<br>
<div>Den 03.12.2023 22:29, skrev
Terje J. Hanssen:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> Already
touched this topic barely in
another thread<br>
<a
href="https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/pipermail/cin/2023-December/007346.html"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/pipermail/cin/2023-December/007346.html</a><br>
<br>
But so many SW and HW pieces are
mentioned around, it is almost a
full-time reading and study:<br>
VAAPI, MESA, VULKAN, Intel Quick
Sync Video etc......<br>
<br>
I realize my aging hardware
which is fast enough for other
tasks, needs some "AV1 upgrade",
if possible.<br>
<br>
But first I wonder, what is
expected possible to do (obtain)
with AV1 de-/encoding on my
existing 64bit hardware:<br>
<br>
<blockquote><font
face="monospace">1) laptop
2018: Dell XPS 13-9370: quad
core i7-8550U CPU (8. gen
Kabylake) and Intel UHD
Graphics</font><br>
<br>
<font face="monospace">2) WS
infinity: MSI Z170A mobo:
quad core i7-6700K CPU (6.
gen Skylake), NVIDIA GeForce
GT-730 graphics</font><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
A budget friendly first "AV1 HW
upgrade" of the workstation 2)
if possible, would be to add a
new GPU as Intel Arc A380.<br>
But the question is if this will
work at all on that much older
(2015) Skylake platform with
i7-6700K CPU?<br>
I've seen CPU bottlenecks has
been mentioned and that Arc A380
is targeted at newer generations
CPU ... <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Extracted from the first wikipedia
reference below about Intel
Alchemist GPUs:
<ul>
<li>Featuring 8 Xe-cores, the<b>
A380 supports PCI Express
4.0</b> and has a total
board power (TBP) of 75W. The
graphics card is equipped with
6GB GDDR6 memory and a
graphics memory interface of
96 bits, providing a memory
bandwidth of 186GB/s.</li>
<li>Bus interface A380:
PCIe 4.0 x8 and for >=A580:
PCIe 4.0 x16 </li>
</ul>
That is, the keyword here seems to
be PCIe 4.0 bus speed as a
requirement to utilize the Arc
A380 GPU for HWA AV1 encoding
(maybe also for other GPUs?)<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">well, despite so much time
spend looking at dev process for mesa3d
I still do not know full details and
media encoder process. But isn't it like
putting uncompressed frame in vram (as
long as you have enough of it - so
probably n raw frames between keyframe
ideally?) let media engine chw on it,
pull resulting compressed bitstream out
of vram via pci-express?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">So I speculate pcie
bandwidth in itself will only matter if
you compress both big frame size and
long keyframes, so dma engine on card
must constantly pump new raw frame data
via bus.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I saw some mention of big
(resizeable) BAR as requirement for good
performance, but opengl/vulkan IMO a bit
different because they send often big
amount of tiny objects (vertices) via
bus for each frame. But may be default
256 Mb in size bar feels a bit small for
sending like 1 second of 25 4k frames
(300 mb/s)?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
Nothing would be better than that A380 does work with
older PCIe 3.0 motherboards and CPUs and without too
much decrease in performance.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Then I got the following reply to my support request
from ASRock TSD regarding<br>
<a
href="https://www.asrock.com/Graphics-Card/Intel/Intel%20Arc%20A380%20Challenger%20ITX%206GB%20OC/index.asp"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.asrock.com/Graphics-Card/Intel/Intel%20Arc%20A380%20Challenger%20ITX%206GB%20OC/index.asp</a><br>
<blockquote>Skylake platform does not match the system
minimum requirements.<br>
Please refer to the below link for further
information.<br>
<a
href="https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000091128/graphics.html"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000091128/graphics.html</a></blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">well, if you can get card for brief (two weeks?)
testing and return if it really does not work - it will be
better than leaning on official answer, IMO.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">after all, Intel, like any company tries to sell
you a bridge .....</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Yes, they always want to sell new hardware and do not want to
support older boxes longer than required.<br>
So I may give it try on the new year. The point is to get av1
encoding to faster with gpu hwaccel, even if it seems to be limited
to about 75% speed:<br>
<br>
Today I also got confirmed from MSI technical support:<br>
<blockquote><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-TW"
lang="EN-US">BIOS of Z170-A Pro MB doesn’t have Resizable
(Re-Size) BAR support, the mainboard doesn’t support Intel Arc
A380 GPU.</span>
<br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-TW"
lang="EN-US">For the MB that support Resizable BAR(Re-Size BAR),
please find the Intel/AMD chipse</span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-TW"
lang="EN-US"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.msi.com/news/detail/MSIIsReadyToSupportResizableBARReSizeBARForNVIDIAGeForceRTX30SeriesGPUs121336">https://www.msi.com/news/detail/MSIIsReadyToSupportResizableBARReSizeBARForNVIDIAGeForceRTX30SeriesGPUs121336</a></span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-TW"
lang="EN-US"></span></blockquote>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-TW"
lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
</span>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+rFky6Ouy8V4jyin7K+LtST53h3REes589UzgNajk-4v6LP8Q@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<blockquote><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> <br>
<br>
I've also extracted from the following two articles:<br>
<blockquote>Intel Arc Desktop Graphics Card Gets
Requirement List: Resizable BAR Enabled &
Support on 10th Gen and Above CPUs</blockquote>
<blockquote><a
href="https://wccftech.com/intel-arc-desktop-graphics-card-gets-requirement-list-resizable-bar-enabled-support-on-10th-gen-and-above-cpus/"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wccftech.com/intel-arc-desktop-graphics-card-gets-requirement-list-resizable-bar-enabled-support-on-10th-gen-and-above-cpus/</a><br>
<i>We are supporting Intel platforms with resizable
BAR and will add support for AMD platforms with
Smart Access Memory as Intel Arc graphics cards
become available for sale as components.
Motherboard requirement:</i><br>
<ul>
<li>Full-size PCIe 3.0 (or newer) x16 slot</li>
<li>Resizeable BAR</li>
</ul>
<br>
Arc A770 Loses Up to 24 Percent Performance Without
Resizable Bar | Tom's Hardware</blockquote>
<blockquote><a
href="https://www.tomshardware.com/news/arc-a770-loses-25-percent-performance-without-resizable-bar"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.tomshardware.com/news/arc-a770-loses-25-percent-performance-without-resizable-bar</a><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<ul>
<li>Arc isn't for older systems.</li>
<li> Intel has revitalized the midrange graphics
card market with the company's latest Arc A770,
which will make its way into the list of best
graphics cards. Starting at $329, the Arc
Alchemist graphics card brings GeForce RTX
3060-like performance to the table with
Resizable BAR (ReBAR) enabled, of course. But,
without ReBAR or similar technology like Smart
Access Memory (SAM), it's another story.</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li> With Arc, Intel recommends potential
consumers make sure their systems support ReBAR
or SAM. </li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li> In addition to testing ReBAR, TechPowerUp
also evaluated whether the speed of the
expansion slot impacts the Arc A770's
performance. As a reminder, the Arc A770 comes
with a conventional PCIe 4.0 x16 interface.
However, the tests revealed that PCIe 3.0 is
still plenty for the Arc A770 as long as ReBAR
is enabled. Furthermore, TechPowerUp only
recorded a performance difference of up to 2%
between PCIe 3.0 and PCIe 4.0, so ReBAR support
is more important than the expansion slot.
Regarding ReBAR, only Intel 10th Generation <a
href="https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-comet-lake-s-cores-53-ghz-high-power-better-pricing"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">Comet Lake</a>, 11th
Generation <a
href="https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-11th-gen-rocket-lake-s-specifications-pricing"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">Rocket Lake</a>, and
12th Generation <a
href="https://www.tomshardware.com/features/intel-shares-alder-lake-pricing-specs-and-gaming-performance"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">Alder Lake</a>
processors support that feature. As for AMD, SAM
support is only present on <a
href="https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-third-gen-ryzen-7nm-launch-intel-cpu,39449.html"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">Ryzen 3000</a> Zen 2
chips and newer. So while Arc's performance
looks attractive and priced fairly, its
requirements effectively lock out users with
older systems. Arc also demands Windows 10 20H2
or <a
href="https://www.tomshardware.com/tag/windows-11" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">Windows
11</a> as the operating system, so Windows 7
users, who are reluctant to upgrade, are also
out of the picture.</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1165048.html?sid=1b9518b86afdcd1fa5e7710f16cd6893"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1165048.html?sid=1b9518b86afdcd1fa5e7710f16cd6893</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">not exactly about av1 in ffmpeg
6.1 but lists some components you need for
vaapi/qsv encoder on Arc 380 - also from dmesg
resizeable bar support is not essential ?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">gpus today use their own
memory paging system, so may be this add
additional restriction on how fast you
can push frames to them. ....</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Also, windows and Linux
drivers might differ ( I bet most
reviews are from windows land).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">May be someone will post
linux review of this particular aspect
of Arc graphics, either video or text
...</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">If this Suse Studio
service still works may be you can
compose your own live image with all
components required to test that and
walk to some offline place where you can
testdrive new card .... { If weather
feels favourable enough - we have around
-14 C airtemp so I and my dog prefer
short dashes around and back to warm
place shortly}</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div> My existing Skylake WS 2)
above has PCie 3.0 only.<br>
<br>
PCIe 4.0<br>
<a
href="https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express</a><br>
<a
href="https://www.techreviewer.com/learn-about-tech/what-is-pcie-40/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.techreviewer.com/learn-about-tech/what-is-pcie-40/</a><br>
<br>
Motherboards Support PCIe 4.0<br>
<a
href="https://www.makeuseof.com/best-budget-pcie-4-motherboards/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.makeuseof.com/best-budget-pcie-4-motherboards/</a><br>
<a
href="https://www.techreviewer.com/tech-answers/which-motherboards-support-pcie-40/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.techreviewer.com/tech-answers/which-motherboards-support-pcie-40/</a><br>
<br>
Maybe also information of interest
for WS building will be clarified
within a week, when Intel release
their new "Meteor Lake, Core Ultra
mobile processors(?)<br>
<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_Lake"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_Lake</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> <br>
References:<br>
AV1 Encoding on a Budget: The
Intel Arc A380 Approach<br>
<a
href="https://medium.com/@contact_45426/av1-encoding-on-a-budget-the-intel-arc-a380-approach-d72367f2f349"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://medium.com/@contact_45426/av1-encoding-on-a-budget-the-intel-arc-a380-approach-d72367f2f349</a><br>
<a
href="https://history-computer.com/intel-arc-a380-full-review-of-intels-entry-level-gpu/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://history-computer.com/intel-arc-a380-full-review-of-intels-entry-level-gpu/</a><br>
<br>
AV1 fixed-function hardware
encoder is included in Alchemist
GPUs as part of the Intel Quick
Sync Video core.<br>
<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Arc#Alchemist"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Arc#Alchemist</a><br>
<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV1#Hardware"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV1#Hardware</a><br>
<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video#Hardware_decoding_and_encoding"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video#Hardware_decoding_and_encoding</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
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