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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Den 17.01.2024 19:59, skrev Andrew
      Randrianasulu:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+rFky5itwbC1yznrubcXtrOAYpNTZt0MbbacrO=VOSXWvPKQQ@mail.gmail.com">
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          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">ср, 17 янв. 2024 г., 18:23
              Terje J. Hanssen <<a
                href="mailto:terjejhanssen@gmail.com"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">terjejhanssen@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div> <br>
                <br>
                <div>Den 17.01.2024 01:34, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="auto">
                    <div><br>
                      <br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">ср, 17 янв.
                          2024 г., 03:07 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin <<a
                            href="mailto:cin@lists.cinelerra-gg.org"
                            rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cin@lists.cinelerra-gg.org</a>>:<br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
                          <br>
                          Den 16.01.2024 17:53, skrev Andrea paz:<br>
                          >> I just installed the latest
                          cin-x86_64 AppImage, started as root, loaded a
                          HDV clip to test to create a BD iso/structure,
                          without Blu-ray device connected (similar like
                          testing create DVD).<br>
                          >> But I got the following error
                          message; any idea what is wrong here?<br>
                          >><br>
                          >><br>
                          >> I think BD-Render currently is locked
                          to AVCHD (h264) video and ac3 audio only.<br>
                          > The same mistake I had. To do a BD/DVD
                          render we need to run CinGG<br>
                          > with root permissions.<br>
                          <br>
                          Well, maybe you saw I actually had root
                          access, but tried instead to <br>
                          write to a directory I had renamed 😳<br>
                          ><br>
                          > @Terje<br>
                          > Thanks for the corrections. I put the new
                          version of the text for the<br>
                          > manual (the third part). Can you check
                          this as well?<br>
                          <br>
                          Seems fine for me.<br>
                          <br>
                          > Plus I would like<br>
                          > to ask you if you could add a "Use Case"
                          for BDs, since I have no<br>
                          > knowledge of it....<br>
                          <br>
                          Yes, let us co-operate on a BD use case next,
                          but first I suggest to <br>
                          complete the 16:9 HDV to 16:9 DV use case
                          successful ;)<br>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">well, may be just use DVD render but
                      abort it at second (batchrender) window, and
                      render normally ?</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">if dvd render set scaler
                      automatically you hopefully just can reuse its
                      settings for wide dv encoding?</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">but watch out for interlace reversal
                      ... :( (tff for hdv, bff for dv).</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                <br>
                <br>
                Yes, I think that can do the trick. I got it to work,
                but I hope this workaround can be more plain and
                clearly, if it is possible to "copy" the DVD Scale
                button in some way to the File Render window. <br>
                <br>
                I felt I had not completely control over what happened.
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">Heh :) In this case you hopefully can just save
          scale plugin/effect setting as they set up by DVD wizard for
          your case and then just manually apply effect over whole video
          track and set its parameters from profile? Even without GUI
          you can copy xml file from .bcast5 directory to your favorite
          place and then copy ot back when you need to render with those
          specific parameters again. Sort of settings template</div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Could you think of making a couple of CinGG demo videos to manual,
    for the following use cases:<br>
    <br>
    1) Rendering HD(V) to 16x9 SD-DV  (anamorhic down-conversion with 
    oversampling)<br>
    2) Rendering HD(V) to 16x9 DVD video <br>
    3) Rendering 16x9 DV to 16x9 DVD video<br>
    <br>
    Another, very illustrative reference I will suggest to this manual
    topic(s):<br>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.sandelinmedia.com/widescreen/">https://www.sandelinmedia.com/widescreen/</a><br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+rFky5itwbC1yznrubcXtrOAYpNTZt0MbbacrO=VOSXWvPKQQ@mail.gmail.com">
      <div dir="auto">
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div>By the way, here is the procedure I think did work
                for me:<br>
                <br>
                1. Loaded the HDV <br>
                2. Started File > DVD Render, selected Format: PAL
                (25.00) 16x9, Scale: Scaled,  and OK<br>
                3. Batch (DVD) Render window opens<br>
                4. Started File > Render and closed the Batch Render
                window<br>
                5. Edited file path and file name, File Format: FFmpeg -
                avi (or dv), Audio: Preset  avi_pcm, Video: dv_pal.avi,
                and before OK!<br>
                6. Open Set Format, verify the Canvas size has changed
                to 720x576 and DAR 16:9, Switch Interlace mode to:
                Bottom Field First, OK<br>
                7.  Lastly OK on the Render Window (5) and rendering
                begin<br>
                <br>
                Confusingly 2. and 3 partly may create DVD directories
                which can be deleted.<br>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">yeah, this is just workaround. I do not feel
          very comfortable doing GUI work, and I do not feel
          special-casing workflow into generic rendering window will be
          good idea...</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Well, in principle I prefer to utilize and combine the best of both
    worlds, complementary when possible. GUI for visual overview, easy
    accessibility of non-familiar testing or new features/applications.
    CLI for effectivity, and understanding when experience, yes. When I
    started with CPM/DOS and Unix and Uniplex, the most were CLI based.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+rFky5itwbC1yznrubcXtrOAYpNTZt0MbbacrO=VOSXWvPKQQ@mail.gmail.com">
      <div dir="auto">
        <div dir="auto">
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div> <br>
                Tried both TFF and BFF<br>
                The bottom line is that this trick and workaround
                created DV 16x9 files which all displayed correct due to
                [SAR 64;45 and DAR 16:9]  😎</div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">but do they display smooth motion? I am still
          worried about field dominance :)</div>
        <div dir="auto">
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div> <br>
                <br>
                <blockquote><font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">ffprobe
                    -hide_banner dv07_05_wide_cingg.avi</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">Input #0,
                    avi, from 'dv07_05_wide_cingg.avi':</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"> 
                    Metadata:</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">   
                    software        : Lavf60.16.100</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"> 
                    Duration: 00:06:58.04, start: 0.000000, bitrate:
                    30342 kb/s</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">  Stream
                    #0:0: Video: dvvideo (dvsd / 0x64737664), yuv420p,
                    720x576 [SAR 64:45 DAR 16:9], 28802 kb/s, 25 fps, 25
                    tbr, 25 tbn, 25 tbc</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">  Stream
                    #0:1: Audio: pcm_s16le ([1][0][0][0] / 0x0001),
                    48000 Hz, 2 channels, s16, 1536 kb/s</font><br>
                  <br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">mediainfo
                    dv07_05_wide_cingg.avi | grep Scan</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">Scan
                    type                                : Interlaced</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">Scan
                    order                               : Top Field
                    First</font><br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">ffprobe
                    -hide_banner dv_16x9_cingg_20240117.avi</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">Input #0,
                    avi, from 'dv_16x9_cingg_20240117.avi':</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"> 
                    Metadata:</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">   
                    software        : Lavf60.16.100</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"> 
                    Duration: 00:06:58.04, start: 0.000000, bitrate:
                    30342 kb/s</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">  Stream
                    #0:0: Video: dvvideo (dvsd / 0x64737664), yuv420p,
                    720x576 [SAR 64:45 DAR 16:9], 28802 kb/s, 25 fps, 25
                    tbr, 25 tbn, 25 tbc</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">  Stream
                    #0:1: Audio: pcm_s16le ([1][0][0][0] / 0x0001),
                    48000 Hz, 2 channels, s16, 1536 kb/s</font><br>
                  <br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">mediainfo
                    dv_16x9_cingg_20240117.avi | grep Scan</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">Scan
                    type                                : Interlaced</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">Scan
                    order                               : Bottom Field
                    First</font><br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">ffprobe
                    -hide_banner dv_16x9_cingg_20240117.dv</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">[dv @
                    0x55b67a8e1580] Estimating duration from bitrate,
                    this may be inaccurate</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">Input #0,
                    dv, from 'dv_16x9_cingg_20240117.dv':</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"> 
                    Metadata:</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">   
                    timecode        : 00:00:00:00</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"> 
                    Duration: 00:06:58.04, start: 0.000000, bitrate:
                    28800 kb/s</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">  Stream
                    #0:0: Video: dvvideo, yuv420p, 720x576 [SAR 64:45
                    DAR 16:9], 25000 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 25 tbn, 25
                    tbc</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">  Stream
                    #0:1: Audio: pcm_s16le, 48000 Hz, stereo, s16, 1536
                    kb/s</font><br>
                  <br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">mediainfo
                    dv_16x9_cingg_20240117.dv | grep Scan</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">Scan
                    type                                : Interlaced</font><br>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">Scan
                    order                               : Top Field
                    First</font><br>
                </blockquote>
                <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"><br>
                </font><br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="auto">
                    <div dir="auto">So may be you need more complex hdv
                      interlaced = to frames -> scale down fields
                      independently = > encode</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">procedure ....</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><a
href="https://cinelerra-gg.org/download/CinelerraGG_Manual/480.html"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://cinelerra-gg.org/download/CinelerraGG_Manual/480.html</a><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">If you just deinterlace then scale
                      it will be simpler, i think. Because we not start
                      with upscaled interlaced SD ....</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">
                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          To repeat and extract from the long thread, we
                          can start from from my <br>
                          dialog with Andrew below:<br>
                          <a
href="https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/pipermail/cin/2024-January/007699.html"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/pipermail/cin/2024-January/007699.html</a><br>
                          <br>
                          =================<br>
                           > I wonder how much was cropped?<br>
                           ><br>
                           > May be I misread you but you loaded HDV
                          1440*1080 clip and then<br>
                           > rendered it into ffmpeg DV at 576i
                          WITHOUT any scaling on top?<br>
                           ><br>
                          --------------------<br>
                          Yes, I loaded the anamorphic 16:9 HDV
                          1440x1080 clip and then rendered<br>
                          it using Set Format Preset PAL 576i
                          (16:9)-DV(D) - without any scaling<br>
                          on top.<br>
                          According to my understanding this should
                          down-convert the full source<br>
                          image to DVD 16:9 anamorphic format, which at
                          playback should display<br>
                          upscaled 16:9 screen.<br>
                          That is, just as in my first post<br>
                          <br>
                          4 b) FFmpeg transcode HDV to DV-wide<br>
                          ffmpeg -hide_banner -i hdv07_05.m2t -vf<br>
                          scale=720:576,setsar=64/45,setdar=16/9 -c:v
                          dvvideo -c:a pcm_s16le<br>
                          dv07_05_wide.dv<br>
                          ----------------------------<br>
                          DVD Render Format autoscales the input HDV
                          format to fit the selected<br>
                          16x9 DVD output format.<br>
                          When input format and output rendering formats
                          are identical, it seems<br>
                          that nothing needs to be set/edited manually
                          in Set Format.<br>
                          <br>
                          Then the unavoidable request/suggestion:<br>
                          Could correspondingly different I/O format via
                          selected Presets also<br>
                          bake in Autoscale as default (beside color
                          space mentioned before) ?<br>
                          (refer to the: -vf
                          scale=720:576,setsar=64/45,setdar=16/9 in the
                          ffmpeg<br>
                          line below)<br>
                          ---------------------------<br>
                          I think no, it was intended to give users
                          control over what kind of <br>
                          filters they want to apply. Even with ffmpeg
                          you still manually add <br>
                          scale filter ...<br>
                          -----------------------------<br>
                          Fx. the DVD Render window has a Scale dropdown
                          menu, where "Scaled" is<br>
                          default.<br>
                          The other options are None and Cropped
                          (various).<br>
                          As an additional test I rendered with None,
                          and then got similar 16:9<br>
                          output displayed as ffmpeg-avi.<br>
                          (The Raw DV differed with 4_3 display)<br>
                          ============<br>
                          <br>
                          Here we are currently.  I hoped to get this
                          down-convert/scale Rendering <br>
                          via Set Format Preset as easy as corresponding
                          DVD Render (and <br>
                          BD-Render) using a user selectable "Scale
                          switch". If this is not easy, <br>
                          possible or desirable, I hope you can add the
                          detailed Scale steps in <br>
                          this case from here, because I have no
                          experience with this yet.<br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          -- <br>
                          Cin mailing list<br>
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