<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Den 17.01.2024 00:54, skrev Andrew
      Randrianasulu:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+rFky7FUgTa3KCEoi+eL5-9m7LP71RQEOMJPbt72s+Z9eeA7w@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="auto">
        <div><br>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">ср, 17 янв. 2024 г., 02:07
              Terje J. Hanssen <<a
                href="mailto:terjejhanssen@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">terjejhanssen@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div> <br>
                <br>
                <div>Den 16.01.2024 23:32, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="auto">
                    <div><br>
                      <br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">ср, 17 янв.
                          2024 г., 01:14 Andrew Randrianasulu <<a
                            href="mailto:randrianasulu@gmail.com"
                            rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">randrianasulu@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div dir="auto">
                            <div><br>
                              <br>
                              <div class="gmail_quote">
                                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">ср, 17
                                  янв. 2024 г., 01:04 Andrew
                                  Randrianasulu <<a
href="mailto:randrianasulu@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    class="moz-txt-link-freetext">randrianasulu@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                  <div dir="auto">
                                    <div><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                                        <div dir="ltr"
                                          class="gmail_attr">ср, 17 янв.
                                          2024 г., 00:42 Terje J.
                                          Hanssen <<a
href="mailto:terjejhanssen@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">terjejhanssen@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
                                        </div>
                                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                          <div> <br>
                                            <br>
                                            <div>Den 16.01.2024 21:35,
                                              skrev Andrew
                                              Randrianasulu:<br>
                                            </div>
                                            <blockquote type="cite">
                                              <div dir="auto">
                                                <div><br>
                                                  <br>
                                                  <div
                                                    class="gmail_quote">
                                                    <div dir="ltr"
                                                      class="gmail_attr">вт,
                                                      16 янв. 2024 г.,
                                                      23:30 Terje J.
                                                      Hanssen <<a
href="mailto:terjejhanssen@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
                                                        target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">terjejhanssen@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                                      <div> <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <div>Den
                                                          16.01.2024
                                                          20:23, skrev
                                                          Andrew
                                                          Randrianasulu:<br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <div
                                                          dir="auto"><a
href="https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/1258"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/1258</a>
                                                          <div
                                                          dir="auto"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          dir="auto">see
                                                          attached to
                                                          this ticket 
                                                          modded decoder
                                                          ...</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          dir="auto"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          dir="auto">I
                                                          wonder if
                                                          Terje's audio
                                                          really 4ch? if
                                                          so,may be we
                                                          can decode it
                                                          to 4* wav
                                                          first, then
                                                          encode them
                                                          correctly to
                                                          bluray lpcm /
                                                          dvd pcm / ac3
                                                          ...</div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </blockquote>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        I did leave out
                                                        some "empty
                                                        channels" to
                                                        simplify and
                                                        clean up the
                                                        post. Here are
                                                        the full ffprobe
                                                        output for the
                                                        HDV source
                                                        (mediainfo was
                                                        complete):<br>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <div dir="auto"><br>
                                                </div>
                                                <div dir="auto"><br>
                                                </div>
                                                <div dir="auto">well,
                                                  this ticket still
                                                  open, so ffmpeg tools
                                                  do not know yet about
                                                  this .. extension? It
                                                  decodes in compat
                                                  stereo mode. I
                                                  attached fixed decoder
                                                  to this ticket, it
                                                  will be interesting if
                                                  you just run ffmpeg
                                                  acodec copy command
                                                  and then compile and
                                                  run decoder on it ..
                                                  it may decode to 4
                                                  files! But not sure
                                                  how it all was
                                                  arranged when it comes
                                                  to microphones ...?
                                                  Does camera contain 4
                                                  of them? or you were
                                                  supposed to connect
                                                  your own array?</div>
                                              </div>
                                            </blockquote>
                                            <br>
                                            Well, I think Steve Mullen's
                                            handbook for Sony FX7 (mine)
                                            and V1 clarify there is only
                                            two audo channels on my
                                            FX7::<br>
                                            <ul>
                                              <li>There is two types of
                                                HDV: HD1/720p (19 Mbps)
                                                and HD2/1080i /25 Mbps)
                                                and Canon's 1080p24.</li>
                                              <li>HD1 is recorded to DV
                                                tape using only the DV
                                                video segment. The PCM
                                                audio segment is open
                                                for future use.</li>
                                              <li>HD2 is recorded to DV
                                                tape using both the DV
                                                video segment and the
                                                PCM audio segment. A
                                                small Subcode (ITI)
                                                segment holds data such</li>
                                              <li>as timecode. Because
                                                no PCM audio segments
                                                are available, HD2
                                                cannot carry record PCM
                                                audio.</li>
                                              <li>MPEG-1 Audio:</li>
                                              <li>Both HD1 and HD2
                                                support two audio
                                                channels of audio
                                                signals that are
                                                digitized with a 48kHz
                                                at 16-bit quantization
                                                and compressed to</li>
                                              <li>384kbps by MPEG-1
                                                Audio Layer 2 encoding.
                                                ProHD adds two-channel
                                                PCM audio thus creating
                                                a format that can carry
                                                four independent</li>
                                              <li>channels of audio.
                                                (See Chapter 2 for an
                                                in-depth introduction to
                                                MPEG-1 audio.)</li>
                                            </ul>
                                          </div>
                                        </blockquote>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div dir="auto">yeah, seems to be
                                      rarely supported on HDV cameras,
                                      see</div>
                                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div dir="auto"><a
href="https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=171688"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=171688</a><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div dir="auto">but still!</div>
                                  </div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <div dir="auto"><br>
                            </div>
                            <div dir="auto"><a
href="https://ieba.wordpress.com/2008/01/21/hdv-grows-up-sonys-hvr-s270-and-hvr-z7/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://ieba.wordpress.com/2008/01/21/hdv-grows-up-sonys-hvr-s270-and-hvr-z7/</a><br>
                            </div>
                            <div dir="auto"><br>
                            </div>
                            <div dir="auto">=====</div>
                            <div dir="auto"><strong>4-Channel Audio</strong><br>
                              The HDV specification, like the DV
                              specification, has allowed for
                              four-channel audio recording from the
                              outset. Few cameras took advantage of it,
                              and when they did, it was an add-on that
                              did not maintain full balanced audio
                              throughout. Though the smaller Sony HVR-Z7
                              records only two channels of audio, the
                              larger HVR-S270 has two XLR inputs in the
                              front of the camcorder and two XLR inputs
                              on the back of the camcorder. Each one has
                              a separate audio level control and an
                              automatic level control switch on the side
                              of the camcorder.<br>
                            </div>
                            <div dir="auto">=====</div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    To supplement the earlier information with wikipedia's hdv audio
    specification:<br>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV#Specifications">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV#Specifications</a><br>
    <br>
    <blockquote>Audio<br>
      Compression     MPEG-1 Audio Layer II, PCM     (HDV 720p)<br>
      MPEG-1 Audio Layer II                                           
      (HDV 1080i)<br>
      Sampling frequency     48 kHz<br>
      Quantization     16 bits<br>
      Audio modes and data rate     <br>
      MPEG-1 Part 3 AL 2 Stereo (2-channel) at 384 kbit/s (192 kbit/s
      per channel);<br>
      optional MPEG-2 Part 3 AL 2 4-channel at 96 kbit/s per channel.<br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+rFky7FUgTa3KCEoi+eL5-9m7LP71RQEOMJPbt72s+Z9eeA7w@mail.gmail.com">
      <div dir="auto">
        <div>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="auto">
                    <div dir="auto"> </div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">and samples:</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto"><a
href="https://forum.doom9.org/archive/index.php/t-125966-p-46.html"
                        rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://forum.doom9.org/archive/index.php/t-125966-p-46.html</a><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">=====</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">As you can see 4 channel audio is
                      part of the HDV format. I am not sure if there are
                      actually 2 audiostreams or only 1. There is no way
                      I can check this because the camera itself only
                      outputs the 4 ch and no 2 ch. But the computer
                      will only play a 2 ch. But when you compare the
                      MediaInfo audio information with the specs I
                      expect that there are 2 audio stream just like
                      eac3to detects. It would be very very nice if HDV
                      support can be integrated into eac3to because many
                      professional cameramen are looking for an
                      solution.<br>
                      <br>
                      Currently eac3to extracts the m2v and 2ch audio
                      stream fine. Only the 4 channel stream isn't
                      detected nor extracted. I uploaded 2 sample to my
                      server for analysis:<br>
                      <a
href="http://tools.twanwintjes.nl/uploads/temp/00_0001_2010-11-07_153401.M2T"
                        rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://tools.twanwintjes.nl/uploads/temp/00_0001_2010-11-07_153401.M2T</a>
                      (49 seconds / 152MB) - Right Click --> Save As<br>
                      <a
href="http://tools.twanwintjes.nl/uploads/temp/00_0002_2010-11-07_214302.M2T"
                        rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://tools.twanwintjes.nl/uploads/temp/00_0002_2010-11-07_214302.M2T</a>
                      (44 seconds / 137MB) - Right Click --> Save As<br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">==== </div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">yes, files still there :)</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                Yeah, I saw some of the forum threads and had a look on
                the sample files.<br>
                For me they the ffprobe outputs were identical with my
                own hdv.m2t files.<br>
                I think as Mullen wrote, the limit for miniDV or HDV
                tapes was utilized for 1080i HD2 with 25 Mbps.<br>
                Only the 720p HD2 format with 19 Mbps had PCM tracs free
                for later use. Maybe other camcorders..<br>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">=====</div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">
          <div dir="auto">.2.1.8 Adaptive Multichannel Prediction</div>
          <div dir="auto">Adaptive multichannel prediction is used to
            reduce the inter-channel redundancy. When using multichannel</div>
          <div dir="auto">prediction, the signals in the transmission
            channels T2..T4 are predicted from the signals in the MPEG-1
            compatible</div>
          <div dir="auto">part of the bit stream (Lo, Ro). Instead of
            the actual signals in a subband group, the prediction error
            is transmitted,</div>
          <div dir="auto">together with predictor coefficients and delay
            compensation.</div>
          <div dir="auto">=======</div>
          <div dir="auto"><br>
          </div>
          <div dir="auto">from</div>
          <div dir="auto"><br>
          </div>
          <div dir="auto"><a
href="https://courses.e-ce.uth.gr/CE401/tree_menu/tutorials/MPEG2/13818-3.pdf"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://courses.e-ce.uth.gr/CE401/tree_menu/tutorials/MPEG2/13818-3.pdf</a><br>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div> <br>
                Possibly file storage on other disc media could be
                utilized for larger bandwidth.<br>
                But I cannot see it was mentioned for the targeted
                camcorder disc recorder<br>
                <a
href="https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/461819-REG/Sony_HVRDR60_HVRDR60_Hard_Disk_Recording.html"
                  rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/461819-REG/Sony_HVRDR60_HVRDR60_Hard_Disk_Recording.html</a><br>
                <br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="auto">
                    <div dir="auto">
                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div dir="auto">
                            <div dir="auto"><br>
                            </div>
                            <div dir="auto"><br>
                            </div>
                            <div dir="auto">
                              <div class="gmail_quote">
                                <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                  <div dir="auto">
                                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div dir="auto">
                                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                          <div>
                                            <ul>
                                            </ul>
                                            <br>
                                            <blockquote type="cite">
                                              <div dir="auto">
                                                <div dir="auto">
                                                  <div
                                                    class="gmail_quote">
                                                    <blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                                      <div>
                                                        <blockquote><font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">ffprobe -hide_banner hdv07_05.m2t</font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">[mpeg2video @ 0x55d58a968340]
                                                          Invalid frame
                                                          dimensions
                                                          0x0.</font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">    Last message repeated 7 times</font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">[mpegts @ 0x55d58a93e580] Could
                                                          not find codec
                                                          parameters for
                                                          stream 2
                                                          (Unknown: none
([160][0][0][0] / 0x00A0)): unknown codec</font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">Consider increasing the value for
                                                          the
                                                          'analyzeduration'
                                                          (0) and
                                                          'probesize'
                                                          (5000000)
                                                          options</font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">[mpegts @ 0x55d58a93e580] Could
                                                          not find codec
                                                          parameters for
                                                          stream 3
                                                          (Unknown: none
([161][0][0][0] / 0x00A1)): unknown codec</font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">Consider increasing the value for
                                                          the
                                                          'analyzeduration'
                                                          (0) and
                                                          'probesize'
                                                          (5000000)
                                                          options</font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">Input #0, mpegts, from
                                                          'hdv07_05.m2t':</font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">  Duration: 00:06:58.27, start:
                                                          3276.528000,
                                                          bitrate: 25626
                                                          kb/s</font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">  Program 100 </font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">  Stream #0:0[0x810]: Video:
                                                          mpeg2video
                                                          (Main)
                                                          ([2][0][0][0]
                                                          / 0x0002),
                                                          yuv420p(tv,
                                                          bt709, top
                                                          first),
                                                          1440x1080 [SAR
                                                          4:3 DAR 16:9],
                                                          25000 kb/s, 25
                                                          fps, 25 tbr,
                                                          90k tbn, 50
                                                          tbc</font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">    Side data:</font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">      cpb: bitrate max/min/avg:
                                                          25000000/0/0
                                                          buffer size:
                                                          7340032
                                                          vbv_delay: N/A</font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">  Stream #0:1[0x814]: Audio: mp2
                                                          ([3][0][0][0]
                                                          / 0x0003),
                                                          48000 Hz,
                                                          stereo, fltp,
                                                          384 kb/s</font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">  Stream #0:2[0x815]: Unknown:
                                                          none
                                                          ([160][0][0][0]
                                                          / 0x00A0)</font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">  Stream #0:3[0x811]: Unknown:
                                                          none
                                                          ([161][0][0][0]
                                                          / 0x00A1)</font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">Unsupported codec with id 0 for
                                                          input stream 2</font><br>
                                                          <font
face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">Unsupported codec with id 0 for
                                                          input stream 3</font><br>
                                                        </blockquote>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                         <br>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </blockquote>
                                            <br>
                                          </div>
                                        </blockquote>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                <br>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>