OT: comments from youtube can be saved, too
I stumbled upon video with 6K comments and opening them all one by one was too much work, so I looked if there was way to automate it Apparently yes! ytdlp_nest_comments.py -i file.info.json -o output.html and json produced by yt-dlp --write-comments https://gist.github.com/pukkandan/ee737fec64822f2552caf3ca4cbf5db7/raw/5ace7... after this you can search in there .... I also noticed cinelerra-gg was typed-away as cinelerra-ng , Main complain apparently yes, lack of easy "clip" like synchro on timeline, but then with more clip-like timeline you usually need separate operation for "disconnecting" audio from video if need arise? I can only guess a/v sync problems were bigger back in analog capture days, so Broadcast2000/Cinelerra were coded with track paradigm instead of clip paradigm. This specific author comes under handle "Reluctant anarchist", not sure how serious he is about it, but for me anarchism is about, well, citizens who can do things without being bossed around, including repairs, including on software tools. But because everything is embedded in "money rule" world of today ..it really very uphill battle, from both "ghost of the past" problems like Windows dominance to very mindset of even nominally open-source programmers caught in endless update cycle. And even "unimportant video firmware issue" may lead to such oopsies as https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/issues/?label_name%5B%5D=VA-API https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/rdong/mesa-rdong-2021/-/commit/de95ff3a3dcb4c... I mean, if video firmware was open AND there were outside developers understanding how to mod it those bitstream errors probably can be corrected on GPU side ..it all in _firmware_ exactly for greater flexibility and bug-fixability! But because h264 is patented It seems unlikely AMD will be able to open this part of their driver, let alone train libre software engineers on how to mod it .... and there is no active reverse-engineering project about this because .... video considered niche and ppl just buy bigger/newer CPU usually (even I bought new GF710 gpu because integrated Radeon3000 was hanging on object move in Blender 3.3! too big shader!) * - there was essay/opinion piece on osnews how Microsoft apparently forced PC dealers/vendors back in 1990x to NOT install anything but Windows. Today Microsoft developers work on mesa3d, but this unfortunately doesn't change world context ... https://www.osnews.com/story/136392/the-only-pc-ever-shipped-with-beos-prein...
From editing almost weekly on CinGG for complex video's I can relate to the comment. But more recently I noticed that the preferred editing method using dailies (putting good stuff on a long linear timeline) is not how I work, and likely not how many people start to edit.
Technically I can related to the AV-sync stuff. It would be better if we could once group pairs of V+A tracks. And maybe even group, groups to facilitate multicam work. But one could also argue that the actual problem with CinGG is that it cannot do an operation on a grab selection, instead of operating on the all tracks being masked by the locks. With respect to the synchronisation of tracks, it absolutely does not make sense that we cannot use audio tracks to synchronise with eath other, and it should always be A+V. Even for the professional use case where audio is recorded independently I guess CinGG only gives the timecode option, but not the ability to sync between tracks, that virtually every other solution supports these days. Even the option 'restore AV-sync between the same file' (as in: give me the original alignment) is not available. Makes it tedious to restore an error. Stefan
@Andrew Randrianasulu I agree with everything you say. Thanks also for ytdlp_nest_comments.py, I did not know it. @Stefan de Konink Some time ago a professional (from whose request the sync via timecode was derived) said that if CinGG could synchronize all audio/video files (not in the timeline, but in Resources window) with an external audio and then delete the embedded audio leaving only the external audio, CinGG could be used in the professional field.
On Thursday, August 17, 2023 1:57:02 PM CEST, Andrea paz wrote:
@Stefan de Konink Some time ago a professional (from whose request the sync via timecode was derived) said that if CinGG could synchronize all audio/video files (not in the timeline, but in Resources window) with an external audio and then delete the embedded audio leaving only the external audio, CinGG could be used in the professional field.
Yes, it makes sense to do it directly in the resources. Or maybe in something like a more advanced 'view' window. -- Stefan
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 2:59 PM Stefan de Konink via Cin <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thursday, August 17, 2023 1:57:02 PM CEST, Andrea paz wrote:
@Stefan de Konink Some time ago a professional (from whose request the sync via timecode was derived) said that if CinGG could synchronize all audio/video files (not in the timeline, but in Resources window) with an external audio and then delete the embedded audio leaving only the external audio, CinGG could be used in the professional field.
Yes, it makes sense to do it directly in the resources. Or maybe in something like a more advanced 'view' window.
question is (at least 1st question for me) - but how exactly its done? Either by embedded audio timecode or some ...beat comparing and calculating offsets? Adam posted some vid on use audio offsets in Cin-HV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0evGSOpwbY&list=PLv6Mn7I6pSmWivUKTvf_CzqHjn... But he is (thankfully) is person with diverse interests (up to glxgears on c64?!) so I understand why he not frequent our corner (als, USA kinda brutal wrt healthcare and other costs of living ....) Unfortunately other co-autors of Cinelerra moved into something else ... Einar for example not updated his for (CVE) since May? I hope he just taking summer break ... Anyway, as c-kiddie I understand frustration with somewhat cryptic and outdated codebase. I understand ppl unlikely to be amazed on first sight, or even on second. So finding someone who can work here is not trivial, especially since we apparently cut from those big European libre events like those meetings Krita, Blender and GIMP devs use for face-to-face discussing ...
-- Stefan -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
On Thursday, August 17, 2023 2:13:46 PM CEST, Andrew Randrianasulu wrote:
Yes, it makes sense to do it directly in the resources. Or maybe in something like a more advanced 'view' window.
question is (at least 1st question for me) - but how exactly its done? Either by embedded audio timecode or some ...beat comparing and calculating offsets?
1) Embedded timecode 2) Alignment signals (or slate) 3) Computed audio alignment (we have it in CinGG for multicam, but it surprisingly can't be used on audio channnels) 4) By ear, to allow moving a timeline
Adam posted some vid on use audio offsets in Cin-HV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0evGSOpwbY&list=PLv6Mn7I6pSmWivUKTvf_CzqHjn...
The nuding is good if you have sort of alignment, temperature compensated oscillators, and want to fine tune it.
Anyway, as c-kiddie I understand frustration with somewhat cryptic and outdated codebase. I understand ppl unlikely to be amazed on first sight, or even on second. So finding someone who can work here is not trivial, especially since we apparently cut from those big European libre events like those meetings Krita, Blender and GIMP devs use for face-to-face discussing ...
I think, like with many projects, it starts with cutting an unreachable target into reachable pieces. Maybe it won't get the perfect architecture that way, but at least we can move forward. 1) Collecting the usecases: where do we suck, or what do others much better 2) Make a wireframe design what would it look like in the GUI 3) Make an sequence diagram for the steps that are required to achieve the result 4) Review it with the community -- Stefan
question is (at least 1st question for me) - but how exactly its done? Either by embedded audio timecode or some ...beat comparing and calculating offsets?
I don't know how it works exactly, probably because of the internal database where the metadata is. However, it is a feature that all professional software has, for example DaVinci Resolve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqXBYSwyLJw
On Thursday, August 17, 2023 2:46:34 PM CEST, Andrea paz wrote:
question is (at least 1st question for me) - but how exactly its done? Either by embedded audio timecode or some ...beat comparing and calculating offsets?
I don't know how it works exactly, probably because of the internal database where the metadata is. However, it is a feature that all professional software has, for example DaVinci Resolve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqXBYSwyLJw
Align by waveform... <https://git.cinelerra-gg.org/git/?p=goodguy/cinelerra.git;a=blob;f=cinelerra-5.1/cinelerra/mixersalign.C;h=bd4116f39bd0a595443f4f39da4e73792b46b14e;hb=HEAD> -- Stefan
чт, 17 авг. 2023 г., 15:37 Stefan de Konink <[email protected]>:
On Thursday, August 17, 2023 2:13:46 PM CEST, Andrew Randrianasulu wrote:
Yes, it makes sense to do it directly in the resources. Or maybe in something like a more advanced 'view' window.
question is (at least 1st question for me) - but how exactly its done? Either by embedded audio timecode or some ...beat comparing and calculating offsets?
1) Embedded timecode 2) Alignment signals (or slate) 3) Computed audio alignment (we have it in CinGG for multicam, but it surprisingly can't be used on audio channnels)
Thanks for pointer, I looked into mixersalign.C and found there two functions: // shift armed mixer tracks by nudge void MixersAlign::nudge_tracks() // move selected mixer edits by nudge void MixersAlign::nudge_selected() may be we can programmatically create 'hidden" mixer and then reuse those functions? PS: I only lately learned about '-r' (recursive) switch to grep, cinelerra keep most core files in one directory but other projects not ... Now I know how to search for function names recursively ;) 4) By ear, to allow moving a timeline
Adam posted some vid on use audio offsets in Cin-HV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0evGSOpwbY&list=PLv6Mn7I6pSmWivUKTvf_CzqHjn...
The nuding is good if you have sort of alignment, temperature compensated oscillators, and want to fine tune it.
Anyway, as c-kiddie I understand frustration with somewhat cryptic and outdated codebase. I understand ppl unlikely to be amazed on first sight, or even on second. So finding someone who can work here is not trivial, especially since we apparently cut from those big European libre events like those meetings Krita, Blender and GIMP devs use for face-to-face discussing ...
I think, like with many projects, it starts with cutting an unreachable target into reachable pieces. Maybe it won't get the perfect architecture that way, but at least we can move forward.
1) Collecting the usecases: where do we suck, or what do others much better 2) Make a wireframe design what would it look like in the GUI 3) Make an sequence diagram for the steps that are required to achieve the result 4) Review it with the community
-- Stefan
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 5:49 AM Stefan de Konink via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
From editing almost weekly on CinGG for complex video's I can relate to the comment. But more recently I noticed that the preferred editing method using dailies (putting good stuff on a long linear timeline) is not how I work, and likely not how many people start to edit.
Stefan has described the basic problem with CinGG -- that is "it no longer is how people work or start to edit". However, that design is what worked in the dinosaur days of 2000 when Linux was still a "little child" and computer hardware was slow by today's standard. Being "stuck" with this design is exactly why there are so many other NLE's out there as alternatives and what Olive NLE hopes to overcome. CinGG is 1 alternative that fits for a specific set of users but may not be useful for everyone.
чт, 17 авг. 2023 г., 21:37 Phyllis Smith via Cin <[email protected]
:
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 5:49 AM Stefan de Konink via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
From editing almost weekly on CinGG for complex video's I can relate to the comment. But more recently I noticed that the preferred editing method using dailies (putting good stuff on a long linear timeline) is not how I work, and likely not how many people start to edit.
Stefan has described the basic problem with CinGG -- that is "it no longer is how people work or start to edit". However, that design is what worked in the dinosaur days of 2000 when Linux was still a "little child" and computer hardware was slow by today's standard. Being "stuck" with this design is exactly why there are so many other NLE's out there as alternatives and what Olive NLE hopes to overcome. CinGG is 1 alternative that fits for a specific set of users but may not be useful for everyone.
Well, infrastructure for grouped edits and gang mode and concept of master track already exist, I think just movement themselves kinda clumsy? kdenlive's UI implement it like this: https://docs.kdenlive.org/en/cutting_and_assembling/right_click_menu.html ==== - Set Audio Reference and Align Audio to Reference are used to align two clips on different tracks in the timeline base on the audio in the tracks. This is useful if two cameras recorded the same scene simultaneously. *Kdenlive* can use the almost identical audio track to align the two clips. To use this feature: - Select the clip that you would like to align *to*. - Right click, select Set Audio Reference. - Select all the clips that you would like to get aligned. - Right-click and select Align Audio to Reference. ==== so I guess technically same context menu item (new one, just placed in track's context menu, i mean) for tracks can be utilized UI wise, with implementation looking up audio track's gang members (video part and other audios), auto-forming group with them, then move/deselect this group based on calculated alignment ..? In Cinelerra as far as I understand pieces of timeline called "edits" and can be empty, and user-facing "clips" are pieces (windows?) into media assets, mapped to edits? May be this creates some confusion about how "clip-like" timeline behaviour can be implemented? As (yet another) mode of operation, not unconditional replacement ....
-- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
OT: I think the manual needs to be more precise about the definitions of "edit" and "clip." What do you think is the difference and how do you use the two types?
Andrea, maybe a new section in the manual should be started in how to accomplish some task like it is done in other NLEs. For example, as Andrew pointed out about "gang mode" working like expected for difficulty in usage "because of the audio tracks being separate from the video tracks". And include clarification of "edit" versus "clip" / differences and usage. I would be useless in creating this new section as I have never used any other NLE. The manual has mostly been based on the old-fashioned "Reference Manual", that was published by the manufacturers of big computers like CDC Cyber, IBM mainframes and Cray, rather than a "User Manual". On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 1:37 AM Andrea paz via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
OT: I think the manual needs to be more precise about the definitions of "edit" and "clip." What do you think is the difference and how do you use the two types? -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Andrea, maybe a new section in the manual should be started in how to accomplish some task like it is done in other NLEs. For example, as Andrew pointed out about "gang mode" working like expected for difficulty in usage "because of the audio tracks being separate from the video tracks". And include clarification of "edit" versus "clip" / differences and usage. I would be useless in creating this new section as I have never used any other NLE.
The manual has mostly been based on the old-fashioned "Reference Manual", that was published by the manufacturers of big computers like CDC Cyber, IBM mainframes and Cray, rather than a "User Manual".
Good idea. Give me a little time to study how to do it.
Andrea,
Andrea, maybe a new section in the manual should be started in how to accomplish some task like it is done in other NLEs. For example, as Andrew pointed out about "gang mode" working like expected for difficulty in usage "because of the audio tracks being separate from the video tracks". And include clarification of "edit" versus "clip" / differences and usage. I would be useless in creating this new section as I have never used any other NLE.
The manual has mostly been based on the old-fashioned "Reference Manual", that was published by the manufacturers of big computers like CDC Cyber, IBM mainframes and Cray, rather than a "User Manual".
Good idea. Give me a little time to study how to do it.
I have made some notes to use but am still gathering some more.
I enclose some minor clarifications I made in the manual. For those who do not use Latex, I report below the phrases I added and where I put them: In the first paragraph of chapter 5 (editing): "The entire space comprised by the timeline (horizontal extent) and the tracks, whether empty or occupied, (vertical extent) is called the canvas, in analogy of the workspace of raster graphics programs or the painter's canvas. It is usual to interchange the terms timeline and canvas. In the canvas, Audio tracks are different from Video tracks so a media including both audio and video will be split into 2 or more indipendent tracks. There is no Link/Unlink-like function present in other programs, although there are workarounds." also: "Nomenclature: media loaded in the timeline (canvas), in whole or in part, are called edits, unlike other programs that call them clips. Clips in \CGG{} are those that are created in the Viewer window and can be brought into the timeline, where they become edits, or brought into the Resources window, inside the Clips folder, where they can be renamed and a description added. These too, once brought into the timeline, are renamed edits. In \CGG{} the difference edits/clips is not important; however, the difference of clips as it is intended in other NLEs is important. These are media (or parts of it) complete in themselves and indipendent from other clips and the timeline. Edits in \CGG{} on the other hand, can be a media (or part of it) but can also be any region of the timeline between In/Out Points or from a highlighted, on which we can do editing operations. This leads to some advantages (e.g. putting an effect only in a certain part of the edit) but one must always keep in mind that the edit remains dependent on the track and the entire canvas." In the first paragraph of Chapter 4 (Load, Save and the EDL): "The media files loaded into the Resources window are called assets and are virtual references to the real files on disk. The original sources are not changed and so we have non-destructive editing."
I have made some notes to use but am still gathering some more.
That's great, Phyllis. I also attach my txt file so we can integrate it. In the file I propose a draft for a new section of the manual where I put some std features of NLEs compared to how they work in CinGG. I am not an expert on other NLEs so I ask everyone to correct, add and improve the points I have written.
Good explanation of Clips versus Edits (thanks Andrea). It has been checked into the Manual Git. On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 1:58 AM Andrea paz <[email protected]> wrote:
Sorry, I had forgotten chapter 5.
...I also attach my txt file so we can integrate
it. In the file I propose a draft for a new section of the manual where I put some std features of NLEs compared to how they work in CinGG. I am not an expert on other NLEs so I ask everyone to correct, add and improve the points I have written.
Andrea, I plan to see if I can add to your workflow.txt. Meanwhile I have started to come up with a listing of ways to duplicate the capabilities of other NLEs that are not obvious in CinGG. It is attached, but I could not figure out a way to make it easy to peruse.
Very good Phyllis. I have a question about how to integrate this section into the manual. 1- we could put it in the Introduction. It would perhaps be premature, but to a new user it would immediately provide a comparison of how they edit with the new CinGG workflow they will be dealing with. 2- There is already a workarounds section in the appendices where we can put it. Disadvantage; it is a somewhat scattered section where it is not convenient to search for what we need. 3- Create a new dedicated appendix section. What do you think is the best solution?
I have a question about how to integrate this section into the manual. ... 3- Create a new dedicated appendix section.
What do you think is the best solution?
Definitely #3 to create a new dedicated appendix section. It may be a repeat of other items already in the manual but having a place for all of it would be beneficial for a user who may be switching from Windows/Premiere Pro to Linux/open source NLEs.
@Phyllis I am proceeding slowly for the new section on comparing CinGG features vs. other NLEs, because I lose a lot of time documenting the other programs. So I don't think I will finish within this month. Did you want to publish before the end of the month? @All Other issue. As I report the differences, I become more and more convinced that I don't like to see this section in the manual. It gives me the idea that those who read it will lose the motivation to learn CinGG and go back to the other programs. I propose another possibility: create a separate pdf to put in our git (similar to your QuickStart) and leave only a note and download link in the manual. What do you think? I am undecided which is the best solution so I am asking for your advice.
Andrea, it does not have to be done this month because still waiting for release of ffmpeg 6.1 so will not be making new AppImages. I like your alternative suggestion - to have it as a separate document and just link to it. That would be much better in my opinion. On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 11:20 AM Andrea paz <[email protected]> wrote:
@Phyllis I am proceeding slowly for the new section on comparing CinGG features vs. other NLEs, because I lose a lot of time documenting the other programs. So I don't think I will finish within this month. Did you want to publish before the end of the month?
@All Other issue. As I report the differences, I become more and more convinced that I don't like to see this section in the manual. It gives me the idea that those who read it will lose the motivation to learn CinGG and go back to the other programs. I propose another possibility: create a separate pdf to put in our git (similar to your QuickStart) and leave only a note and download link in the manual. What do you think? I am undecided which is the best solution so I am asking for your advice.
Sorry for the late about your work on the Manual. I think that it would be better create this "Differences" section in a another PDF, no inside the Cin-GG Manual. About Canvas for the Timeline, as reported in an other thread (https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/pipermail/cin/2023-August/006852.html), for me is a mistake to compare Timeline with Canvas and I don't understand why we should explain what is Timeline for. The Andrea_paz's exemple is more correct for the Compositor area: that is the area where all is "drawn", from a user point of view. For me Clip and Edit are the same, but Andrea_paz explained well to understand better how to distinguish them in Cinelerra. I think Users would take many advantages if a few of shortcuts could be changed to standard shortcuts. I know, or I belive, that is not possible to create custom User shortcuts because Cinelerra-GG is not create with this feature, unfortunately. Some time ago I had suggested if it was possible to change some of them with the approval of the majority of users. I guess that older users don't want that. ################################################################# Changing some shortcuts to a NLE's standard shortcuts. For example: J - K - L (Play Normal reverse - Stop- Play Normal forward) if pressed twice J (or L), its Play Fast or Normal. I - O (InPoint - OutPoint) A - S (Jump backwards next cut - Jump forwards next cut) If an shortcut on After column has a '+' symbol (for example: + 'I'), it means that it is added at the old shortcut/s on Before column and also that that shortcut has been take from an old shortcut (of course), which it has another key. (Capital letters in the After column do not mean Shift key is pressed) ----------------------------------+-------------------+-------------------+ Description | Shortcut | Before | After ----------------------------------+-------------------+-------------------+ -To clip | 'i' | Ctrl+I -Scroll window timeline... left | LeftArrow, ',' | LeftArrow -Scroll window timeline... right | RightArrow, '. | RightArrow -Label | 'l' | ''' (single quote) -Go to | 'g' | Ctrl+G -Generate keyframes... tweeking | 'j' | 'G' -Jump forward... next Keyframes | 'k' | Shift+Right Arrow -Jump backwards... next Keyframes | Shift+K | Shift+Left Arrow -New Project... | 'n' | Ctrl+N -Load files... | 'o' | Ctrl+O -Save | 's' | Ctrl+S -Save as... | Shift+S | Ctrl+Shift+S -Save Session | Ctrl+S | (null) -Select-> All | 'a' | Ctrl+A -Deselect All | 'a' or null | Ctrl+Shift+A -Undo | 'z', Ctrl+Z | Ctrl+Z -Redo | Shift+Z | Shift+Z -InPoint | '[', '<' | + 'I' -OutPoint | ']', '>' | + 'O' -Play Normal reverse | NumKP 6, Alt+O | + 'J' Normal&Fast -Play Stop | NumKP 0, Alt+M | + 'K' -Play Normal forward | NumKP 3, Alt+L | + 'L' Normal&Fast -Jump backwards to the next cut | Alt+LeftArrow | + 'A' -Jump forwards to the next cut | Alt+RightArrow | + 'S' -One Frame back | NumKP 4, Alt+U | + ',' (comma) -One Frame forward | NumKP 1, Alt+J | + '.' (period) | | -Load window: Select All files | Ctrl+A | Ctrl+A -Load window: Deselect All files | Ctrl+Z | Ctrl+Shift+A -BD Render... | Ctrl+Shift+d | (null) -DVD Render... | Alt+d | (null) -Delete last track | 'd'->Ctrl+D | Ctrl+D -Quit | 'q' | Ctrl+Q -Settings-> Save settings now | Ctrl+Shift+S | Shift+S -Settings-> Align cursor on frames| Ctrl+A | Ctrl+F ----------------------------------+-------------------+-------------------+ To summarize the jumps backwards and forward: ----------------------------------+-------------------+-------------------+ -Jump backwards to the next cut | Alt+LeftArrow, 'A' -Jump forwards to the next cut | Alt+RightArrow, 'S' -Jump backwards to the next label | Ctrl+LeftArrow -Jump forwards to the next label | Ctrl+RightArrow -Jump backwards... next Keyframes | Shift+LeftArrow -Jump forward... next Keyframes | Shift+RightArrow -Jump backwards to the next Autos | Ctrl+Shift+Alt+LeftArrow -Jump forward to the next Autos | Ctrl+Shift+Alt+RightArrow ----------------------------------+-------------------+-------------------+ "Shift+K" and "Ctrl+Shift+K" no longer used. ################################################################# Thanks! ...Igorbeg Il 25/08/2023 19:19, Andrea paz via Cin ha scritto:
@All Other issue. As I report the differences, I become more and more convinced that I don't like to see this section in the manual. It gives me the idea that those who read it will lose the motivation to learn CinGG and go back to the other programs. I propose another possibility: create a separate pdf to put in our git (similar to your QuickStart) and leave only a note and download link in the manual. What do you think? I am undecided which is the best solution so I am asking for your advice.
сб, 26 авг. 2023 г., 10:54 Igor BEGHETTO via Cin <[email protected]
:
Sorry for the late about your work on the Manual. I think that it would be better create this "Differences" section in a another PDF, no inside the Cin-GG Manual.
About Canvas for the Timeline, as reported in an other thread (https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/pipermail/cin/2023-August/006852.html), for me is a mistake to compare Timeline with Canvas and I don't understand why we should explain what is Timeline for. The Andrea_paz's exemple is more correct for the Compositor area: that is the area where all is "drawn", from a user point of view.
For me Clip and Edit are the same, but Andrea_paz explained well to understand better how to distinguish them in Cinelerra.
I think Users would take many advantages if a few of shortcuts could be changed to standard shortcuts. I know, or I belive, that is not possible to create custom User shortcuts because Cinelerra-GG is not create with this feature, unfortunately. Some time ago I had suggested if it was possible to change some of them with the approval of the majority of users. I guess that older users don't want that.
Main problem those keyboard commands spread all over codebase, so changing them can be a chore ... also, I need to think how it will look programmatically (not tried this more strategic part yet!) Thanks for possible mappings, I try to save them for (possible) later use.
################################################################# Changing some shortcuts to a NLE's standard shortcuts. For example: J - K - L (Play Normal reverse - Stop- Play Normal forward) if pressed twice J (or L), its Play Fast or Normal. I - O (InPoint - OutPoint) A - S (Jump backwards next cut - Jump forwards next cut)
If an shortcut on After column has a '+' symbol (for example: + 'I'), it means that it is added at the old shortcut/s on Before column and also that that shortcut has been take from an old shortcut (of course), which it has another key. (Capital letters in the After column do not mean Shift key is pressed) ----------------------------------+-------------------+-------------------+ Description | Shortcut | Before | After ----------------------------------+-------------------+-------------------+ -To clip | 'i' | Ctrl+I -Scroll window timeline... left | LeftArrow, ',' | LeftArrow -Scroll window timeline... right | RightArrow, '. | RightArrow -Label | 'l' | ''' (single quote) -Go to | 'g' | Ctrl+G -Generate keyframes... tweeking | 'j' | 'G' -Jump forward... next Keyframes | 'k' | Shift+Right Arrow -Jump backwards... next Keyframes | Shift+K | Shift+Left Arrow -New Project... | 'n' | Ctrl+N -Load files... | 'o' | Ctrl+O -Save | 's' | Ctrl+S -Save as... | Shift+S | Ctrl+Shift+S -Save Session | Ctrl+S | (null) -Select-> All | 'a' | Ctrl+A -Deselect All | 'a' or null | Ctrl+Shift+A -Undo | 'z', Ctrl+Z | Ctrl+Z -Redo | Shift+Z | Shift+Z -InPoint | '[', '<' | + 'I' -OutPoint | ']', '>' | + 'O' -Play Normal reverse | NumKP 6, Alt+O | + 'J' Normal&Fast -Play Stop | NumKP 0, Alt+M | + 'K' -Play Normal forward | NumKP 3, Alt+L | + 'L' Normal&Fast -Jump backwards to the next cut | Alt+LeftArrow | + 'A' -Jump forwards to the next cut | Alt+RightArrow | + 'S' -One Frame back | NumKP 4, Alt+U | + ',' (comma) -One Frame forward | NumKP 1, Alt+J | + '.' (period) | | -Load window: Select All files | Ctrl+A | Ctrl+A -Load window: Deselect All files | Ctrl+Z | Ctrl+Shift+A -BD Render... | Ctrl+Shift+d | (null) -DVD Render... | Alt+d | (null) -Delete last track | 'd'->Ctrl+D | Ctrl+D -Quit | 'q' | Ctrl+Q -Settings-> Save settings now | Ctrl+Shift+S | Shift+S -Settings-> Align cursor on frames| Ctrl+A | Ctrl+F ----------------------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
To summarize the jumps backwards and forward: ----------------------------------+-------------------+-------------------+ -Jump backwards to the next cut | Alt+LeftArrow, 'A' -Jump forwards to the next cut | Alt+RightArrow, 'S' -Jump backwards to the next label | Ctrl+LeftArrow -Jump forwards to the next label | Ctrl+RightArrow -Jump backwards... next Keyframes | Shift+LeftArrow -Jump forward... next Keyframes | Shift+RightArrow -Jump backwards to the next Autos | Ctrl+Shift+Alt+LeftArrow -Jump forward to the next Autos | Ctrl+Shift+Alt+RightArrow ----------------------------------+-------------------+-------------------+ "Shift+K" and "Ctrl+Shift+K" no longer used. #################################################################
Thanks! ...Igorbeg
Il 25/08/2023 19:19, Andrea paz via Cin ha scritto:
@All Other issue. As I report the differences, I become more and more convinced that I don't like to see this section in the manual. It gives me the idea that those who read it will lose the motivation to learn CinGG and go back to the other programs. I propose another possibility: create a separate pdf to put in our git (similar to your QuickStart) and leave only a note and download link in the manual. What do you think? I am undecided which is the best solution so I am asking for your advice. -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
Igor Vladimirsky's criticism is always important and accurate. I regret that he does not want to deal with CinGG and we have to settle indirectly for his blog. I made a very big mistake and I apologize to everyone: to have confused the canvas concerning only the compositor and the size of the project with the timeline. It is true, as Igor says, that I am missing the fundamentals. I will try to fix my mistake but I am open to everyone's input. PS: I agree with IgorBeg's request about changing the shortcuts as he indicated.
I removed my "canvas = timeline" errors; I hope this is now correct. Rereading the sections on temporary, camera, projector, viewport, track and output size (all things I rewrote), they seem poorly and confusingly developed. Does anyone know how to correct them, improve them, and make them more accurate/informative? My apologize.
сб, 26 авг. 2023 г., 15:31 Andrea paz <[email protected]>:
I removed my "canvas = timeline" errors; I hope this is now correct.
Clips in \CGG{} are those that are created in the Viewer window and can be brought into the timeline, where they become edits, or brought into the Resources window, inside the \texttt{Clips folder}, I think you can create clips even from timeline? This little 'i' button (and apparently clip done this way can contain empty space/silence, or even multiple timeline edits) Rereading the sections on temporary, camera, projector, viewport,
track and output size (all things I rewrote), they seem poorly and confusingly developed. Does anyone know how to correct them, improve them, and make them more accurate/informative? My apologize.
сб, 26 авг. 2023 г., 20:53 Andrew Randrianasulu <[email protected]>:
сб, 26 авг. 2023 г., 15:31 Andrea paz <[email protected]>:
I removed my "canvas = timeline" errors; I hope this is now correct.
Clips in \CGG{} are those that are created in the Viewer window and can be brought into the timeline, where they become edits, or brought into the Resources window, inside the \texttt{Clips folder},
I think you can create clips even from timeline? This little 'i' button (and apparently clip done this way can contain empty space/silence, or even multiple timeline edits)
==== paragraph{Drag Snapping} \index{edit!drag with snap} if you hold down the Ctrl + Alt keys while dragging using the mouse, once the clip gets near to an edit, a label, an in/out pointer or the start/end of the timeline, the dragged clip will snap next to that marker. The 2 will now be exactly aligned with no gap and no overlap. As you drag the clip close to one of the markers, when they are within a short distance they start to stick and stay that way until you move further away from that distance. Also, the line will turn color from green to yellow while in the sticky phase. In addition, this works for a plugin while dragging so that it will be the same length as the edit. \subsection{Copy/Paste clips/medias across Multiple Instances}% \label{sub:copy_paste_multiple_instances} \index{multiple instances: copy/paste} It is easy to copy/paste clips/media within a single instance of \CGG{} or across multiple instances. The reason this works is because there are hidden X cut buffers and these are used to transmit EDL from 1 instance to another. ==== may be replace "2" and "1" with words "two" and "one" here?
Rereading the sections on temporary, camera, projector, viewport,
track and output size (all things I rewrote), they seem poorly and confusingly developed. Does anyone know how to correct them, improve them, and make them more accurate/informative? My apologize.
I think you can create clips even from timeline? This little 'i' button (and apparently clip done this way can contain empty space/silence, or even multiple timeline edits)
You're right. @Phyllis Can you add the "to clip" from the timeline? Or maybe it's better to delete the whole "nomenclature" entry since it's useless and doesn't say anything important.
сб, 26 авг. 2023 г., 22:20 Andrea paz <[email protected]>:
I think you can create clips even from timeline? This little 'i' button (and apparently clip done this way can contain empty space/silence, or even multiple timeline edits)
You're right. @Phyllis Can you add the "to clip" from the timeline? Or maybe it's better to delete the whole "nomenclature" entry since it's useless and doesn't say anything important.
well, for navigating in source code this might be quite important? Also, not sure if it was already noted somewhere else but may be saying upfront that dragging edit boundaries normally NOT result in "elastic time (slow down/speed up)" effect might be useful? I tend to forgot about things like non-default snapping mode, group moves or aligning and I guess users coming from other NLEs will also baffled a bit... so Read This Huge Manual still not quite optional ....
@Phyllis I edited the manual again so do not consider the previous attachment valid, only this second one. @All In addition to eliminating my error (canvas = timeline) I made some other small additions based on Igor Vladimirskji's articles (he gave me permission). Can you check if they seem useful or are they to be corrected? In addition to Latex I also attach a text file for those who want to see and correct the changes right away, without waiting for the new version of the manual to be published.
Andrea, as you stated, I did only apply this second one for changes to Windows, Editing, Attributes, and Plugins. All checked into GIT after I just checked for spelling because I do not know enough to verify correctness. Also, I corrected 3 format errors in another part of Windows.tex and updated Tips.tex for Andrew's vaapi dual-gpu usage. Thank you. Let me know if you want me to update Plugins.tex for the new Mirror plugin. On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 7:20 AM Andrea paz via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
@Phyllis I edited the manual again so do not consider the previous attachment valid, only this second one. @All In addition to eliminating my error (canvas = timeline) I made some other small additions based on Igor Vladimirskji's articles (he gave me permission). Can you check if they seem useful or are they to be corrected?
In addition to Latex I also attach a text file for those who want to see and correct the changes right away, without waiting for the new version of the manual to be published. -- Cin mailing list [email protected] https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
I wanted to add another paragraph to the Manual, explaining that the wording is not perfect and there may be unintentional descriptive errors anywhere. But then I read in the Introduction the already existing "Disclaimer" paragraph and thought that errors are already covered so am not going to worry about it. Below is the Disclaimer (which I am fairly certain mimics a standard disclaimer form from other manuals!) *Disclaimer* In this capacity, the author of this manual is not responsible for the function or errors of the software described in this manual. Great care has been taken in the creation of texts and illustrations. Nevertheless, errors cannot be completely excluded. However, the author cannot assume any legal responsibility or liability for incorrect information and its consequences. The author is grateful for suggestions for improvement and information on errors. On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 7:20 AM Andrea paz via Cin < [email protected]> wrote:
@Phyllis I edited the manual again so do not consider the previous attachment valid, only this second one. @All In addition to eliminating my error (canvas = timeline) I made some other small additions based on Igor Vladimirskji's articles (he gave me permission). Can you check if they seem useful or are they to be corrected?
participants (5)
-
Andrea paz -
Andrew Randrianasulu -
Igor BEGHETTO -
Phyllis Smith -
Stefan de Konink