[Cin] Prepping HW upgrade options for AV1 de-/encoding
Terje J. Hanssen
terjejhanssen at gmail.com
Mon Dec 11 14:13:43 CET 2023
Den 08.12.2023 23:56, skrev Terje J. Hanssen:
>
>
> Den 08.12.2023 12:50, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu:
>>
>>
>> пт, 8 дек. 2023 г., 13:57 Andrew Randrianasulu <randrianasulu at gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>>
>> пт, 8 дек. 2023 г., 13:37 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin
>> <cin at lists.cinelerra-gg.org>:
>>
>>
>>
>> Den 03.12.2023 22:29, skrev Terje J. Hanssen:
>>> Already touched this topic barely in another thread
>>> https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/pipermail/cin/2023-December/007346.html
>>>
>>> But so many SW and HW pieces are mentioned around, it is
>>> almost a full-time reading and study:
>>> VAAPI, MESA, VULKAN, Intel Quick Sync Video etc......
>>>
>>> I realize my aging hardware which is fast enough for other
>>> tasks, needs some "AV1 upgrade", if possible.
>>>
>>> But first I wonder, what is expected possible to do (obtain)
>>> with AV1 de-/encoding on my existing 64bit hardware:
>>>
>>> 1) laptop 2018: Dell XPS 13-9370: quad core i7-8550U CPU
>>> (8. gen Kabylake) and Intel UHD Graphics
>>>
>>> 2) WS infinity: MSI Z170A mobo: quad core i7-6700K CPU
>>> (6. gen Skylake), NVIDIA GeForce GT-730 graphics
>>>
>>>
>>> A budget friendly first "AV1 HW upgrade" of the workstation
>>> 2) if possible, would be to add a new GPU as Intel Arc A380.
>>> But the question is if this will work at all on that much
>>> older (2015) Skylake platform with i7-6700K CPU?
>>> I've seen CPU bottlenecks has been mentioned and that Arc
>>> A380 is targeted at newer generations CPU ...
>>
>> Extracted from the first wikipedia reference below about
>> Intel Alchemist GPUs:
>>
>> * Featuring 8 Xe-cores, the*A380 supports PCI Express 4.0*
>> and has a total board power (TBP) of 75W. The graphics
>> card is equipped with 6GB GDDR6 memory and a graphics
>> memory interface of 96 bits, providing a memory bandwidth
>> of 186GB/s.
>> * Bus interface A380: PCIe 4.0 x8 and for >=A580:
>> PCIe 4.0 x16
>>
>> That is, the keyword here seems to be PCIe 4.0 bus speed as a
>> requirement to utilize the Arc A380 GPU for HWA AV1 encoding
>> (maybe also for other GPUs?)
>>
>>
>> well, despite so much time spend looking at dev process for
>> mesa3d I still do not know full details and media encoder
>> process. But isn't it like putting uncompressed frame in vram (as
>> long as you have enough of it - so probably n raw frames between
>> keyframe ideally?) let media engine chw on it, pull resulting
>> compressed bitstream out of vram via pci-express?
>>
>> So I speculate pcie bandwidth in itself will only matter if you
>> compress both big frame size and long keyframes, so dma engine on
>> card must constantly pump new raw frame data via bus.
>>
>> I saw some mention of big (resizeable) BAR as requirement for
>> good performance, but opengl/vulkan IMO a bit different because
>> they send often big amount of tiny objects (vertices) via bus for
>> each frame. But may be default 256 Mb in size bar feels a bit
>> small for sending like 1 second of 25 4k frames (300 mb/s)?
>>
>
>
> Nothing would be better than that A380 does work with older PCIe 3.0
> motherboards and CPUs and without too much decrease in performance.
Then I got the following reply to my support request from ASRock TSD
regarding
https://www.asrock.com/Graphics-Card/Intel/Intel%20Arc%20A380%20Challenger%20ITX%206GB%20OC/index.asp
Skylake platform does not match the system minimum requirements.
Please refer to the below link for further information.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000091128/graphics.html
>
>
> I've also extracted from the following two articles:
>
> Intel Arc Desktop Graphics Card Gets Requirement List: Resizable
> BAR Enabled & Support on 10th Gen and Above CPUs
>
> https://wccftech.com/intel-arc-desktop-graphics-card-gets-requirement-list-resizable-bar-enabled-support-on-10th-gen-and-above-cpus/
> /We are supporting Intel platforms with resizable BAR and will add
> support for AMD platforms with Smart Access Memory as Intel Arc
> graphics cards become available for sale as components.
> Motherboard requirement:/
>
> * Full-size PCIe 3.0 (or newer) x16 slot
> * Resizeable BAR
>
>
> Arc A770 Loses Up to 24 Percent Performance Without Resizable Bar
> | Tom's Hardware
>
> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/arc-a770-loses-25-percent-performance-without-resizable-bar
>
> * Arc isn't for older systems.
> * Intel has revitalized the midrange graphics card market with
> the company's latest Arc A770, which will make its way into
> the list of best graphics cards. Starting at $329, the Arc
> Alchemist graphics card brings GeForce RTX 3060-like
> performance to the table with Resizable BAR (ReBAR) enabled,
> of course. But, without ReBAR or similar technology like Smart
> Access Memory (SAM), it's another story.
>
> * With Arc, Intel recommends potential consumers make sure their
> systems support ReBAR or SAM.
>
> * In addition to testing ReBAR, TechPowerUp also evaluated
> whether the speed of the expansion slot impacts the Arc A770's
> performance. As a reminder, the Arc A770 comes with a
> conventional PCIe 4.0 x16 interface. However, the tests
> revealed that PCIe 3.0 is still plenty for the Arc A770 as
> long as ReBAR is enabled. Furthermore, TechPowerUp only
> recorded a performance difference of up to 2% between PCIe 3.0
> and PCIe 4.0, so ReBAR support is more important than the
> expansion slot. Regarding ReBAR, only Intel 10th Generation
> Comet Lake
> <https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-comet-lake-s-cores-53-ghz-high-power-better-pricing>,
> 11th Generation Rocket Lake
> <https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-11th-gen-rocket-lake-s-specifications-pricing>,
> and 12th Generation Alder Lake
> <https://www.tomshardware.com/features/intel-shares-alder-lake-pricing-specs-and-gaming-performance>
> processors support that feature. As for AMD, SAM support is
> only present on Ryzen 3000
> <https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-third-gen-ryzen-7nm-launch-intel-cpu,39449.html>
> Zen 2 chips and newer. So while Arc's performance looks
> attractive and priced fairly, its requirements effectively
> lock out users with older systems. Arc also demands Windows 10
> 20H2 or Windows 11
> <https://www.tomshardware.com/tag/windows-11> as the operating
> system, so Windows 7 users, who are reluctant to upgrade, are
> also out of the picture.
>
>
>
>>
>> https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1165048.html?sid=1b9518b86afdcd1fa5e7710f16cd6893
>>
>> not exactly about av1 in ffmpeg 6.1 but lists some components you
>> need for vaapi/qsv encoder on Arc 380 - also from dmesg resizeable
>> bar support is not essential ?
>>
>>
>>
>> gpus today use their own memory paging system, so may be this add
>> additional restriction on how fast you can push frames to them. ....
>>
>> Also, windows and Linux drivers might differ ( I bet most reviews
>> are from windows land).
>>
>> May be someone will post linux review of this particular aspect
>> of Arc graphics, either video or text ...
>>
>> If this Suse Studio service still works may be you can compose
>> your own live image with all components required to test that and
>> walk to some offline place where you can testdrive new card ....
>> { If weather feels favourable enough - we have around -14 C
>> airtemp so I and my dog prefer short dashes around and back to
>> warm place shortly}
>>
>>
>> My existing Skylake WS 2) above has PCie 3.0 only.
>>
>> PCIe 4.0
>> https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express
>> https://www.techreviewer.com/learn-about-tech/what-is-pcie-40/
>>
>> Motherboards Support PCIe 4.0
>> https://www.makeuseof.com/best-budget-pcie-4-motherboards/
>> https://www.techreviewer.com/tech-answers/which-motherboards-support-pcie-40/
>>
>> Maybe also information of interest for WS building will be
>> clarified within a week, when Intel release their new "Meteor
>> Lake, Core Ultra mobile processors(?)
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_Lake
>>
>>>
>>> References:
>>> AV1 Encoding on a Budget: The Intel Arc A380 Approach
>>> https://medium.com/@contact_45426/av1-encoding-on-a-budget-the-intel-arc-a380-approach-d72367f2f349
>>> https://history-computer.com/intel-arc-a380-full-review-of-intels-entry-level-gpu/
>>>
>>> AV1 fixed-function hardware encoder is included in Alchemist
>>> GPUs as part of the Intel Quick Sync Video core.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Arc#Alchemist
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV1#Hardware
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video#Hardware_decoding_and_encoding
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> Cin at lists.cinelerra-gg.org
>> https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
>>
>
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