[Cin] Prepping HW upgrade options for AV1 de-/encoding

Mon Dec 11 14:23:52 CET 2023

пн, 11 дек. 2023 г., 16:13 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin <
cin at lists.cinelerra-gg.org>:

>
>
> Den 08.12.2023 23:56, skrev Terje J. Hanssen:
>
>
>
> Den 08.12.2023 12:50, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu:
>
>
>
> пт, 8 дек. 2023 г., 13:57 Andrew Randrianasulu <randrianasulu at gmail.com>:
>
>>
>>
>> пт, 8 дек. 2023 г., 13:37 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin <
>> cin at lists.cinelerra-gg.org>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Den 03.12.2023 22:29, skrev Terje J. Hanssen:
>>>
>>> Already touched this topic barely in another thread
>>> https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/pipermail/cin/2023-December/007346.html
>>>
>>> But so many SW and HW pieces are mentioned around, it is almost a
>>> full-time reading and study:
>>> VAAPI, MESA, VULKAN, Intel Quick Sync Video etc......
>>>
>>> I realize my aging hardware which is fast enough for other tasks, needs
>>> some "AV1 upgrade", if possible.
>>>
>>> But first I wonder, what is expected possible to do (obtain) with AV1
>>> de-/encoding on my existing 64bit hardware:
>>>
>>> 1) laptop 2018: Dell XPS 13-9370: quad core i7-8550U CPU (8. gen
>>> Kabylake) and Intel UHD Graphics
>>>
>>> 2) WS infinity:  MSI Z170A mobo:  quad core i7-6700K CPU (6. gen
>>> Skylake), NVIDIA GeForce GT-730 graphics
>>>
>>>
>>> A budget friendly first "AV1 HW upgrade" of the workstation 2) if
>>> possible, would be to add a new GPU as Intel Arc A380.
>>> But the question is if this will work at all on that much older (2015)
>>> Skylake platform with i7-6700K CPU?
>>> I've seen CPU bottlenecks has been mentioned and that Arc A380 is
>>> targeted at newer generations CPU ...
>>>
>>>
>>> Extracted from the first wikipedia reference below about Intel Alchemist
>>> GPUs:
>>>
>>>    - Featuring 8 Xe-cores, the* A380 supports PCI Express 4.0* and has
>>>    a total board power (TBP) of 75W. The graphics card is equipped with 6GB
>>>    GDDR6 memory and a graphics memory interface of 96 bits, providing a memory
>>>    bandwidth of 186GB/s.
>>>    - Bus interface A380:         PCIe 4.0 x8 and for >=A580: PCIe 4.0
>>>    x16
>>>
>>> That is, the keyword here seems to be PCIe 4.0 bus speed as a
>>> requirement to utilize the Arc A380 GPU for HWA AV1 encoding (maybe also
>>> for other GPUs?)
>>>
>>
>> well, despite so much time spend looking at dev process for mesa3d I
>> still do not know full details and media encoder process. But isn't it like
>> putting uncompressed frame in vram (as long as you have enough of it - so
>> probably n raw frames between keyframe ideally?) let media engine chw on
>> it, pull resulting compressed bitstream out of vram via pci-express?
>>
>> So I speculate pcie bandwidth in itself will only matter if you compress
>> both big frame size and long keyframes, so dma engine on card must
>> constantly pump new raw frame data via bus.
>>
>> I saw some mention of big (resizeable) BAR as requirement for good
>> performance, but opengl/vulkan IMO a bit different because they send often
>> big amount of tiny objects (vertices) via bus for each frame. But may be
>> default 256 Mb in size bar feels a bit small for sending like 1 second of
>> 25 4k frames (300 mb/s)?
>>
>
>
> Nothing would be better than that A380 does work with older PCIe 3.0
> motherboards and CPUs and without too much decrease in performance.
>
>
> Then I got the following reply to my support request from ASRock TSD
> regarding
>
> https://www.asrock.com/Graphics-Card/Intel/Intel%20Arc%20A380%20Challenger%20ITX%206GB%20OC/index.asp
>
> Skylake platform does not match the system minimum requirements.
> Please refer to the below link for further information.
>
> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000091128/graphics.html
>
> well, if you can get card for brief (two weeks?) testing and return if it
really does not work - it will be better than leaning on official answer,
IMO.

after all, Intel, like any company tries to sell you a bridge .....

>
>
>
> I've also extracted from the following two articles:
>
> Intel Arc Desktop Graphics Card Gets Requirement List: Resizable BAR
> Enabled & Support on 10th Gen and Above CPUs
>
>
> https://wccftech.com/intel-arc-desktop-graphics-card-gets-requirement-list-resizable-bar-enabled-support-on-10th-gen-and-above-cpus/
> *We are supporting Intel platforms with resizable BAR and will add support
> for AMD platforms with Smart Access Memory as Intel Arc graphics cards
> become available for sale as components. Motherboard requirement:*
>
>    - Full-size PCIe 3.0 (or newer) x16 slot
>    - Resizeable BAR
>
>
> Arc A770 Loses Up to 24 Percent Performance Without Resizable Bar | Tom's
> Hardware
>
>
> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/arc-a770-loses-25-percent-performance-without-resizable-bar
>
>
>    - Arc isn't for older systems.
>    - Intel has revitalized the midrange graphics card market with the
>    company's latest Arc A770, which will make its way into the list of best
>    graphics cards. Starting at $329, the Arc Alchemist graphics card brings
>    GeForce RTX 3060-like performance to the table with Resizable BAR (ReBAR)
>    enabled, of course. But, without ReBAR or similar technology like Smart
>    Access Memory (SAM), it's another story.
>
>
>    - With Arc, Intel recommends potential consumers make sure their
>    systems support ReBAR or SAM.
>
>
>    - In addition to testing ReBAR, TechPowerUp also evaluated whether the
>    speed of the expansion slot impacts the Arc A770's performance. As a
>    reminder, the Arc A770 comes with a conventional PCIe 4.0 x16 interface.
>    However, the tests revealed that PCIe 3.0 is still plenty for the Arc A770
>    as long as ReBAR is enabled. Furthermore, TechPowerUp only recorded a
>    performance difference of up to 2% between PCIe 3.0 and PCIe 4.0, so ReBAR
>    support is more important than the expansion slot. Regarding ReBAR, only
>    Intel 10th Generation Comet Lake
>    <https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-comet-lake-s-cores-53-ghz-high-power-better-pricing>,
>    11th Generation Rocket Lake
>    <https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-11th-gen-rocket-lake-s-specifications-pricing>,
>    and 12th Generation Alder Lake
>    <https://www.tomshardware.com/features/intel-shares-alder-lake-pricing-specs-and-gaming-performance>
>    processors support that feature. As for AMD, SAM support is only present on Ryzen
>    3000
>    <https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-third-gen-ryzen-7nm-launch-intel-cpu,39449.html>
>    Zen 2 chips and newer. So while Arc's performance looks attractive and
>    priced fairly, its requirements effectively lock out users with older
>    systems. Arc also demands Windows 10 20H2 or Windows 11
>    <https://www.tomshardware.com/tag/windows-11> as the operating system,
>    so Windows 7 users, who are reluctant to upgrade, are also out of the
>    picture.
>
>
>
>
>
> https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1165048.html?sid=1b9518b86afdcd1fa5e7710f16cd6893
>
> not exactly about av1 in ffmpeg 6.1 but lists some components you need for
> vaapi/qsv encoder on Arc 380 - also from dmesg resizeable bar support is
> not essential ?
>
>
>
>> gpus today use their own memory paging system, so may be this add
>> additional restriction on how fast you can push frames to them. ....
>>
>> Also, windows and Linux drivers might differ ( I bet most reviews are
>> from windows land).
>>
>> May be someone will post linux review of this particular aspect of Arc
>> graphics, either video or text ...
>>
>> If this Suse Studio service still works may be you can compose your own
>> live image with all components required to test that and walk to some
>> offline place where you can testdrive new card .... { If weather feels
>> favourable enough - we have around -14 C airtemp so I and my dog prefer
>> short dashes around and back to warm place shortly}
>>
>>
>> My existing Skylake WS 2) above has PCie 3.0 only.
>>>
>>> PCIe 4.0
>>> https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express
>>> https://www.techreviewer.com/learn-about-tech/what-is-pcie-40/
>>>
>>> Motherboards Support PCIe 4.0
>>> https://www.makeuseof.com/best-budget-pcie-4-motherboards/
>>>
>>> https://www.techreviewer.com/tech-answers/which-motherboards-support-pcie-40/
>>>
>>> Maybe also information of interest for WS building will be clarified
>>> within a week, when Intel release their new "Meteor Lake, Core Ultra mobile
>>> processors(?)
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_Lake
>>>
>>>
>>> References:
>>> AV1 Encoding on a Budget: The Intel Arc A380 Approach
>>>
>>> https://medium.com/@contact_45426/av1-encoding-on-a-budget-the-intel-arc-a380-approach-d72367f2f349
>>>
>>> https://history-computer.com/intel-arc-a380-full-review-of-intels-entry-level-gpu/
>>>
>>> AV1 fixed-function hardware encoder is included in Alchemist GPUs as
>>> part of the Intel Quick Sync Video core.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Arc#Alchemist
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV1#Hardware
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video#Hardware_decoding_and_encoding
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cin mailing list
>>> Cin at lists.cinelerra-gg.org
>>> https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Cin mailing list
> Cin at lists.cinelerra-gg.org
> https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/pipermail/cin/attachments/20231211/584e69c8/attachment-0001.htm>