[Cin] SD 16:9 missing among CinGG BD-Render Video Formats

Terje J. Hanssen terjejhanssen at gmail.com
Thu Jan 18 16:56:24 CET 2024



Den 17.01.2024 19:59, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu:
>
>
> ср, 17 янв. 2024 г., 18:23 Terje J. Hanssen <terjejhanssen at gmail.com>:
>
>
>
>     Den 17.01.2024 01:34, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu:
>>
>>
>>     ср, 17 янв. 2024 г., 03:07 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin
>>     <cin at lists.cinelerra-gg.org>:
>>
>>
>>
>>         Den 16.01.2024 17:53, skrev Andrea paz:
>>         >> I just installed the latest cin-x86_64 AppImage, started
>>         as root, loaded a HDV clip to test to create a BD
>>         iso/structure, without Blu-ray device connected (similar like
>>         testing create DVD).
>>         >> But I got the following error message; any idea what is
>>         wrong here?
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >> I think BD-Render currently is locked to AVCHD (h264)
>>         video and ac3 audio only.
>>         > The same mistake I had. To do a BD/DVD render we need to
>>         run CinGG
>>         > with root permissions.
>>
>>         Well, maybe you saw I actually had root access, but tried
>>         instead to
>>         write to a directory I had renamed 😳
>>         >
>>         > @Terje
>>         > Thanks for the corrections. I put the new version of the
>>         text for the
>>         > manual (the third part). Can you check this as well?
>>
>>         Seems fine for me.
>>
>>         > Plus I would like
>>         > to ask you if you could add a "Use Case" for BDs, since I
>>         have no
>>         > knowledge of it....
>>
>>         Yes, let us co-operate on a BD use case next, but first I
>>         suggest to
>>         complete the 16:9 HDV to 16:9 DV use case successful ;)
>>
>>
>>     well, may be just use DVD render but abort it at second
>>     (batchrender) window, and render normally ?
>>
>>     if dvd render set scaler automatically you hopefully just can
>>     reuse its settings for wide dv encoding?
>>
>>     but watch out for interlace reversal ... :( (tff for hdv, bff for
>>     dv).
>>
>
>
>     Yes, I think that can do the trick. I got it to work, but I hope
>     this workaround can be more plain and clearly, if it is possible
>     to "copy" the DVD Scale button in some way to the File Render window.
>
>     I felt I had not completely control over what happened.
>
>
>
> Heh :) In this case you hopefully can just save scale plugin/effect 
> setting as they set up by DVD wizard for your case and then just 
> manually apply effect over whole video track and set its parameters 
> from profile? Even without GUI you can copy xml file from .bcast5 
> directory to your favorite place and then copy ot back when you need 
> to render with those specific parameters again. Sort of settings template
>

Could you think of making a couple of CinGG demo videos to manual, for 
the following use cases:

1) Rendering HD(V) to 16x9 SD-DV  (anamorhic down-conversion with 
oversampling)
2) Rendering HD(V) to 16x9 DVD video
3) Rendering 16x9 DV to 16x9 DVD video

Another, very illustrative reference I will suggest to this manual topic(s):
https://www.sandelinmedia.com/widescreen/

>
>     By the way, here is the procedure I think did work for me:
>
>     1. Loaded the HDV
>     2. Started File > DVD Render, selected Format: PAL (25.00) 16x9,
>     Scale: Scaled,  and OK
>     3. Batch (DVD) Render window opens
>     4. Started File > Render and closed the Batch Render window
>     5. Edited file path and file name, File Format: FFmpeg - avi (or
>     dv), Audio: Preset  avi_pcm, Video: dv_pal.avi, and before OK!
>     6. Open Set Format, verify the Canvas size has changed to 720x576
>     and DAR 16:9, Switch Interlace mode to: Bottom Field First, OK
>     7.  Lastly OK on the Render Window (5) and rendering begin
>
>     Confusingly 2. and 3 partly may create DVD directories which can
>     be deleted.
>
>
>
> yeah, this is just workaround. I do not feel very comfortable doing 
> GUI work, and I do not feel special-casing workflow into generic 
> rendering window will be good idea...

Well, in principle I prefer to utilize and combine the best of both 
worlds, complementary when possible. GUI for visual overview, easy 
accessibility of non-familiar testing or new features/applications. CLI 
for effectivity, and understanding when experience, yes. When I started 
with CPM/DOS and Unix and Uniplex, the most were CLI based.

>
>     Tried both TFF and BFF
>     The bottom line is that this trick and workaround created DV 16x9
>     files which all displayed correct due to [SAR 64;45 and DAR 16:9]  😎
>
>
> but do they display smooth motion? I am still worried about field 
> dominance :)
>
>
>
>         ffprobe -hide_banner dv07_05_wide_cingg.avi
>         Input #0, avi, from 'dv07_05_wide_cingg.avi':
>         Metadata:
>         software        : Lavf60.16.100
>         Duration: 00:06:58.04, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 30342 kb/s
>           Stream #0:0: Video: dvvideo (dvsd / 0x64737664), yuv420p,
>         720x576 [SAR 64:45 DAR 16:9], 28802 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 25
>         tbn, 25 tbc
>           Stream #0:1: Audio: pcm_s16le ([1][0][0][0] / 0x0001), 48000
>         Hz, 2 channels, s16, 1536 kb/s
>
>         mediainfo dv07_05_wide_cingg.avi | grep Scan
>         Scan type                                : Interlaced
>         Scan order                               : Top Field First
>
>
>         ffprobe -hide_banner dv_16x9_cingg_20240117.avi
>         Input #0, avi, from 'dv_16x9_cingg_20240117.avi':
>         Metadata:
>         software        : Lavf60.16.100
>         Duration: 00:06:58.04, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 30342 kb/s
>           Stream #0:0: Video: dvvideo (dvsd / 0x64737664), yuv420p,
>         720x576 [SAR 64:45 DAR 16:9], 28802 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 25
>         tbn, 25 tbc
>           Stream #0:1: Audio: pcm_s16le ([1][0][0][0] / 0x0001), 48000
>         Hz, 2 channels, s16, 1536 kb/s
>
>         mediainfo dv_16x9_cingg_20240117.avi | grep Scan
>         Scan type                                : Interlaced
>         Scan order                               : Bottom Field First
>
>
>         ffprobe -hide_banner dv_16x9_cingg_20240117.dv
>         [dv @ 0x55b67a8e1580] Estimating duration from bitrate, this
>         may be inaccurate
>         Input #0, dv, from 'dv_16x9_cingg_20240117.dv':
>         Metadata:
>         timecode        : 00:00:00:00
>         Duration: 00:06:58.04, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 28800 kb/s
>           Stream #0:0: Video: dvvideo, yuv420p, 720x576 [SAR 64:45 DAR
>         16:9], 25000 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 25 tbn, 25 tbc
>           Stream #0:1: Audio: pcm_s16le, 48000 Hz, stereo, s16, 1536 kb/s
>
>         mediainfo dv_16x9_cingg_20240117.dv | grep Scan
>         Scan type                                : Interlaced
>         Scan order                               : Top Field First
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>     So may be you need more complex hdv interlaced = to frames ->
>>     scale down fields independently = > encode
>>
>>     procedure ....
>>     https://cinelerra-gg.org/download/CinelerraGG_Manual/480.html
>>
>>
>>     If you just deinterlace then scale it will be simpler, i think.
>>     Because we not start with upscaled interlaced SD ....
>>
>>
>>
>>         To repeat and extract from the long thread, we can start from
>>         from my
>>         dialog with Andrew below:
>>         https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/pipermail/cin/2024-January/007699.html
>>
>>         =================
>>          > I wonder how much was cropped?
>>          >
>>          > May be I misread you but you loaded HDV 1440*1080 clip and
>>         then
>>          > rendered it into ffmpeg DV at 576i WITHOUT any scaling on top?
>>          >
>>         --------------------
>>         Yes, I loaded the anamorphic 16:9 HDV 1440x1080 clip and then
>>         rendered
>>         it using Set Format Preset PAL 576i (16:9)-DV(D) - without
>>         any scaling
>>         on top.
>>         According to my understanding this should down-convert the
>>         full source
>>         image to DVD 16:9 anamorphic format, which at playback should
>>         display
>>         upscaled 16:9 screen.
>>         That is, just as in my first post
>>
>>         4 b) FFmpeg transcode HDV to DV-wide
>>         ffmpeg -hide_banner -i hdv07_05.m2t -vf
>>         scale=720:576,setsar=64/45,setdar=16/9 -c:v dvvideo -c:a
>>         pcm_s16le
>>         dv07_05_wide.dv
>>         ----------------------------
>>         DVD Render Format autoscales the input HDV format to fit the
>>         selected
>>         16x9 DVD output format.
>>         When input format and output rendering formats are identical,
>>         it seems
>>         that nothing needs to be set/edited manually in Set Format.
>>
>>         Then the unavoidable request/suggestion:
>>         Could correspondingly different I/O format via selected
>>         Presets also
>>         bake in Autoscale as default (beside color space mentioned
>>         before) ?
>>         (refer to the: -vf scale=720:576,setsar=64/45,setdar=16/9 in
>>         the ffmpeg
>>         line below)
>>         ---------------------------
>>         I think no, it was intended to give users control over what
>>         kind of
>>         filters they want to apply. Even with ffmpeg you still
>>         manually add
>>         scale filter ...
>>         -----------------------------
>>         Fx. the DVD Render window has a Scale dropdown menu, where
>>         "Scaled" is
>>         default.
>>         The other options are None and Cropped (various).
>>         As an additional test I rendered with None, and then got
>>         similar 16:9
>>         output displayed as ffmpeg-avi.
>>         (The Raw DV differed with 4_3 display)
>>         ============
>>
>>         Here we are currently.  I hoped to get this
>>         down-convert/scale Rendering
>>         via Set Format Preset as easy as corresponding DVD Render (and
>>         BD-Render) using a user selectable "Scale switch". If this is
>>         not easy,
>>         possible or desirable, I hope you can add the detailed Scale
>>         steps in
>>         this case from here, because I have no experience with this yet.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         -- 
>>         Cin mailing list
>>         Cin at lists.cinelerra-gg.org
>>         https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/mailman/listinfo/cin
>>
>
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