February 2024 - Cin - Cinelerra-GG Mailing Lists

DAR, PAR and SAR, again
by Andrea paz 17 Feb '24

17 Feb '24

I am opening a new post because the previous one, for me, was becoming too confusing. I quote Terje's latest email: ============================================================== Well, I have prioritized more to understand what happends than interprete the somewhat ambiguous definitions. (the order of the factors is indifferent). https://stackoverflow.com/questions/18877243/why-ffmpeg-print-sar-instead-o… I think of SAR in the FFmpeg output as a correction factor for the recordered picture frame format resolution (Wp), to get the desired output display resolution (expanded Wd with square px) at a given DAR, (or in opposite order). I found a useful table at ffmpeg-user that contains information for practically all SD and HD video formats. Maybe something for the manual? https://www.mail-archive.com/ffmpeg-user@ffmpeg.org/msg27522.html display DAR picture PAR SAR = DAR/PAR =========== ==== =========== ==== ===== 16:9-2160: 3840 x 2160 16:9 : 3840 x 2160 16:9 : 1:1 4:3-2160: 2880 x 2160 4:3 : 2880 x 2160 4:3 : 1:1 16:9-1080: 1920 x 1080 16:9 : 1920 x 1080 16:9 : 1:1 4:3-1080: 1440 x 1080 4:3 : 1440 x 1080 4:3 : 1:1 16:9-576: 1024 x 576 16:9 : 720 x 576 5:4 : 64:45 4:3-576: 768 x 576 4:3 : 720 x 576 5:4 : 16:15 16:9-480: 853 x 480 16:9 : 720 x 480 3:2 : 32:27 4:3-480: 640 x 480 4:3 : 720 x 480 3:2 : 8:9 [...] =========================================================== My God, I feel like giving up.... The following is my opinion (indeed, my delirium!). The table is wrong (for ffmpeg!) because it uses PAR. As is also stated in the thread you cited: "> PAR (picture aspect ratio [1]) [noun]: 1, The horizontal-to-vertical > size [3] ratio (H:V, e.g. 5:4, 3:2) for pictures. get rid of this one altogether, because nothing in FFmpeg use it, and rightly, because nobody should use it." Instead of calling it PAR, it should be considered simply the aspect ratio of W x H of the input. That is, the W/H of the formula DAR=W/H x SAR (and not DAR=PAR x SAR). PAR and SAR cannot be different since they are the same thing (i.e. the shape of a single pixel, as seen from the image https://stackoverflow.com/questions/18877243/why-ffmpeg-print-sar-instead-o… that you mentioned). In practice, in my opinion, the PAR in the table is nothing more than the SAR meant as Storage aspect ratio; in fact, the author of the table defines it as a Picture aspect ratio, which is a frame aspect ratio and not a pixel aspect ratio. It seems to me that in an effort to be precise, it creates even more confusion. Instead, the SAR in the table is nothing more than the S(ample)AR ( = P(ixel)AR). If you think I am crazy to keep up with these definitions, you are right! The formula DAR = PAR x SAR was convenient and simple, however, ffmpeg decided to use "samples" instead of pixels and so PAR should no longer be used. That is why I was thinking of removing all reference to PAR. The trouble is that if one searches around one always finds PAR and never SAR meant as "sample a.r."; including many tutorials on ffmpeg. The sample concept is derived from analog video signals and is encoded in the standards BT. 601 and Digital. It refers to horizontal scan lines (in MHz) and not simply pixels. From Wikipedia: "analog video does not have pixels, but rather a raster scan, and thus has a well-defined vertical resolution (the lines of the raster), but not a well-defined horizontal resolution, since each line is an analog signal." S(ample)AR was created precisely to adapt the analog concept to the digital world. To further explore the concept of sample: https://web.archive.org/web/20140816103129/http://lipas.uwasa.fi/~f76998/vi… Your definition of SAR as a correction factor is right and I will use it in txt. Thank you for the cue. To summarize: in the digital domain we can use the concept of S(ample)AR when we are dealing with digital anamorphic formats (for example, when transcoding to a format that has different aspect ratio). But the most frequent use is in "standard-definition television or with DV, HDV and a few other formats. SAR is used via the formula DAR = SAR x (W/H), where SAR is the conversion factor between anamorphic Input and Output. Perhaps the clearest treatment is as follows: https://encodingwissen.de/hintergrund/videobild/anamorph/itu-r-bt601/ It is in German and therefore needs to be translated (the Italian translation is not very good...). They seem to me to be similar concepts to Raffaella Traniello's guide. As an additional (my) confusion, in CinGG we also have the W/H Ratio parameters, which are simple multipliers but, if set only one of them (with values of the classic aspect ratios, 4:3; 16:9, etc.) and leaving the other one at 1, they act as a real SAR even though they are not... @Andrew In CinGG/Info-->Detail is the data reported taken using ffmpeg? In other words: does CinGG use SAR like ffmpeg or does it have an even different way? PS: In my opinion, it would be better to change W/H Ratio to "W/H multiplier"

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binary repo for cin-hv
by Andrew Randrianasulu 16 Feb '24

16 Feb '24

https://github.com/heroineworshiper/hvirtual_bin supposedly we have some bugs in chromakeyer (or more accurately not all functionality was implemented correctly) so it might be interesting to see how it was supposed to work also, previews in file loading dialog! reported to work on ubuntu 18.04/x86_64 via https://www.linux.org.ru/forum/multimedia/17521951

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Re: [Cin] Another attempt at patching cin-hv sources so they build on my system
by Andrew Randrianasulu 16 Feb '24

16 Feb '24

On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 1:25 PM Andrew Randrianasulu <randrianasulu(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 12:58 PM Andrew Randrianasulu > <randrianasulu(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 11:37 AM Andrew Randrianasulu > > <randrianasulu(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 9:53 AM Andrew Randrianasulu > > > <randrianasulu(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 10:00 AM Adam williams <broadcast(a)earthling.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Haven't had enough time to finish & integrate your work. Please submit a working build log on ubuntu 16-22 & explain why you're trying to build without filefork support. > > > > > > > > It was function linker was unable to find (for some reason) > > > > > > > > right now after those steps in hvirtual root (on chrooted Rosa 2016 > > > > system - gcc 5.5.0) > > > > > > > > make clean twice > > > > > > > > git clean -fdx {removes all untracked files} > > > > > > > > git reset --hard > > > > HEAD is now at 400dcf62 Greater less typo > > > > > > > > configure fails at sndfile step > > > > > > ah, probably just artefact of running configure > log > 2>&1 > > > > > > just running configure is fine. but pulseaudio still barf > > > > > > > > > so, with just 4 new patches (attached) I see this linking failure: > > > > g++ -o ../bin/cinelerra `cat x86_64/objs` > > ../thirdparty/libsndfile-1.0.28/src/.libs/libsndfile.a(libsndfile_la-flac.o): > > In function `flac_close': > > /root/src/hvirtual/thirdparty/libsndfile-1.0.28/src/flac.c:736: > > undefined reference to `FLAC__metadata_object_delete' > > ../thirdparty/libsndfile-1.0.28/src/.libs/libsndfile.a(libsndfile_la-flac.o): > > In function `flac_write_strings': > > /root/src/hvirtual/thirdparty/libsndfile-1.0.28/src/flac.c:627: > > undefined reference to > > `FLAC__metadata_object_vorbiscomment_entry_from_name_value_pair' > > /root/src/hvirtual/thirdparty/libsndfile-1.0.28/src/flac.c:628: > > undefined reference to > > `FLAC__metadata_object_vorbiscomment_append_comment' > > /root/src/hvirtual/thirdparty/libsndfile-1.0.28/src/flac.c:582: > > undefined reference to `FLAC__metadata_object_new' > > ../thirdparty/libsndfile-1.0.28/src/.libs/libsndfile.a(libsndfile_la-flac.o): > > In function `sf_flac_meta_get_vorbiscomments': > > /root/src/hvirtual/thirdparty/libsndfile-1.0.28/src/flac.c:414: > > undefined reference to > > `FLAC__metadata_object_vorbiscomment_find_entry_from' > > ../thirdparty/libsndfile-1.0.28/src/.libs/libsndfile.a(libsndfile_la-ogg_vorbis.o): > > In function `ogg_vorbis_open': > > /root/src/hvirtual/thirdparty/libsndfile-1.0.28/src/ogg_vorbis.c:506: > > undefined reference to `vorbis_version_string' > > collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status > > make[2]: *** [Makefile:545: ../bin/cinelerra] Error 1 > > > > hm, may be disable flac support in libsndfile if possible? > > > > disabling external programs in libsndfile helps but now I meet failure > at loading mpg media: > > bin/cinelerra > Cinelerra 8 (C)2022 Adam Williams > > Cinelerra is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, > and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under > certain conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for Cinelerra. > BC_DisplayInfo::test_window 158: No window manager > EditPanel::create_objects: meter_panel == 0 > libancil_get_fd 88 recvmsg failed <==== here we hang > ^Csignal_entry: got SIGINT my pid=18201 execution table size=0: > signal_entry: got SIGINT my pid=18262 execution table size=0: > signal_entry: got SIGINT my pid=18203 execution table size=0: > signal_entry: got SIGINT my pid=18232 execution table size=0: > kill_subs 276: process=18203 > SigHandler::signal_handler total files=0 > SigHandler::signal_handler total files=0 > SigHandler::signal_handler total files=0 > Aborted > [root@slax hvirtual]# grep libancil_get_fd -r . > Binary file ./cinelerra/x86_64/forkwrapper.o matches > Binary file ./cinelerra/x86_64/cfunctions.o matches > ./cinelerra/cfunctions.c:int libancil_get_fd(int parent_fd) > ./cinelerra/cfunctions.c: printf("libancil_get_fd %d recvmsg > failed\n", __LINE__); > ./cinelerra/forkwrapper.C: return libancil_get_fd(parent_fd); > ./cinelerra/cfunctions.h:int libancil_get_fd(int parent_fd); > Binary file ./bin/cinelerra matches > > current set of patches to get to that point attached. so, I do not know how to debug this filefork (?) hang but disabling it still makes cin-hv works (at least media loading/playback) for me new set attached > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > log attached > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2024 at 4:53 PM > > > > > From: "Andrew Randrianasulu" <randrianasulu(a)gmail.com> > > > > > To: broadcast(a)earthling.net, "Cinelerra.GG" <cin(a)lists.cinelerra-gg.org>, "Phyllis Smith" <phylsmith2017(a)gmail.com>, "igor_ubuntu" <sitelve(a)gmail.com> > > > > > Subject: Another attempt at patching cin-hv sources so they build on my system > > > > > a bit of mess because I was not sure if lack of .version or > > > > > .tarball-version in thirdparty/pulseaudio-13 dir was responsible for > > > > > rebuild failure. Probably .tarball-version, because just .version > > > > > already in git ... > > > > > > > > > > I was surprised my git add was not working, but it was simply due to > > > > > file being already in git, so you probably can ignore patch 0005 > > > > >

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Another attempt at patching cin-hv sources so they build on my system
by Andrew Randrianasulu 16 Feb '24

16 Feb '24

a bit of mess because I was not sure if lack of .version or .tarball-version in thirdparty/pulseaudio-13 dir was responsible for rebuild failure. Probably .tarball-version, because just .version already in git ... I was surprised my git add was not working, but it was simply due to file being already in git, so you probably can ignore patch 0005

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Adding soft subtitles to a DVD video
by Terje J. Hanssen 15 Feb '24

15 Feb '24

There are two things I want to add to my current intermediate DVD mpg video files created with ffmpeg, and/or to the DVD tree structure created with DeVeDeNG: 1. Create and add a Navigation menu in the beginning This will be an upcoming, separate topic 2. Create and add Soft Subtitles as simple text info commentaries to the video content This is the topic for this post. The reason that I want *Soft* Subtitles as a separate text file stream related to timing, is because this should be possible to *add* or import to an existing video file without the need to re-encode. It should also be flexible to display on or off during playback, if I have understood this correct so far. 2.1 Preferably I want to add/import subtitles as fast and easy using GUI interactive tools like DeVeDeNG or VLC if possible? Next thereafter could be using the more time consuming ffmpeg https://www.baeldung.com/linux/subtitles-ffmpeg#how-to-add-soft-subtitles 2.2 So is the question if learning a special subtitle editor is necessary to create the text file easier, like one of these 5 https://www.debugpoint.com/3-great-subtitle-editors-in-linux-systems/ Tip, suggestions or experience how to do this?

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OT: mp3guessenc
by Andrew Randrianasulu 14 Feb '24

14 Feb '24

Was looking for xing media software, found this little open-source utility printing info on mpeg audio files, including this rare multichannel extension! https://mp3guessenc.sourceforge.io/

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Patch HDR for Color3way
by Andrea paz 09 Feb '24

09 Feb '24

>From this forum thread: https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/forum/help-video/problem-with-colour3way/ After the patch to make Color3way work in float, even with values above the range (0 - 1.0f), this problem occurs: "If I move the Shadows Value slider to the left, by the time it reaches 0.006 the image is almost totally black, which makes it totally useless." and: "I confirm the problem. The color wheel also behaves the same way, while the saturation slider works normally. Midtone and Highlight work normally." The applicated HDR patches can be seen here: https://git.cinelerra-gg.org/git/?p=goodguy/cinelerra.git;a=commitdiff;h=3c… I've tried a few builds/tests. The patches for Overlays and for Histogram plugin seem to work normally. Only the patch for Color3way causes a problem. This problem occurs only for shadows, which is strange because the patch only alters the white boundary and leaves the black boundary unchanged. I tried to read the plugin code but I am not able to understand the problem. Does anyone understand anything about it? For now you could exclude the Color3way patch but put the other two back in. PS: Using the overlays in the patchbay seems to me that the PorterDuff do not work. This does not depend on the patch because I have the same behavior even with the old appimages without the patch...

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LV2 with Python 3.12 patches
by Phyllis Smith 08 Feb '24

08 Feb '24

I am hoping that Andrea can test the attached patches for LV2 which makes it work on Python 3.12 on Fedora39. Need testing to compare to make sure sounds correct between Before patches and After patches - especially the Calf plugins but other LV2 plugins too. Do NOT need 3.12 python because I want to make sure it works currently and I have already tested on Fedora 39 with Python 3.12. Before the patches, CinGG would not build so even if the patches are not 100% correct for 3.12, at least it will still build. No other changes needed -- just put these 6 small patch files in the cinelerra thirdparty/src subdirectory and do a full rebuild.

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rusticl and DaVinch Resolve (round N)
by Andrew Randrianasulu 05 Feb '24

05 Feb '24

https://chaos.social/@karolherbst/111827770287551625 ===== Some rusticl info for AMD users Once this MR lands (and appears in 23.3 as well) Davinci Resolve should "just work" with `RUSTICL_ENABLE=radeonsi` set in the env. It already works without it on Navi GPUs, this MR just fixes a crash on older ones. https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/27295 ==== quote ends ===

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qctools, sonic lineup
by Andrew Randrianasulu 02 Feb '24

02 Feb '24

Sorry Terje if I was too rough in my previous email. I am definitely very much want to have as error-free transcode (and as little transcode as possible in general) as you, for same reason. I am not sure you can absolutely trust ffmpeg for not doing any conversion by default. For example 6.1 seems to upconvert 16 bit audio when you select dvd_pcm audio output. /dev/shm/ffmpeg/ffmpeg -i /home/guest/CIN51.mp4 -target pal-dvd -c:a pcm_dvd -f dvd /dev/shm/cin51.mpeg ah, it only does so if decoder output floats by default (aac, may be mp3 too?) for dv it was 16 to 16. Not sure how good internal ffmpeg muxer for dvd file creation, but you probably can test this by reusing cingg created audio and video files from dvd master. I have few more ideas to test and smart-up our bash script so it will use wav output + sox + mplex automatically if wav or pcm file was detected in output directory (so you can set easy wav output and do not care about BE pcm file and its extension), but again I need some time to test this. I was looking for some quality control tools and found qctools and this post specifically on stackexchange https://sound.stackexchange.com/questions/40222/show-the-differences-betwee… it mentions program named Sonic Lineup, hopefully easy (and working on Linux) way to compare two audio files. Not sure if it supports dvd audio tho .... https://sonicvisualiser.org/sonic-lineup/index.html qctools are more aiming at video quality metrics, just build their latest tool: https://mediaarea.net/QCTools I am sure you can get Appimage or even rpm from their site.

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